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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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AGRO wrote:
steve wrote:
The irony of all this is that I was sitting on 700 posts for ages, and had David Teague as the player under my username. I hoped to get to 800 before he was delisted, and when I got to 800 and saw Thornton's name under my username I thought I'd cracked it to have a guy who would still be at the club when all the trades and delistings had been finalised.

Looks like I'll have to wait until they get adjusted again... :)



C'mon Mods, stop whinging about our behaviour and get of your arses and remove 'Bret Thornton' from the player lists above our avatars. :P


;)

Let's see what happens. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:04 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
kwtf_ wrote:
kwtf_ wrote:
If Bret is out of contract, why do Hawthorn need to offer anything to Carlton?


If Bret is out of contract, why do Hawthorn need to offer anything to Carlton?

Sorry, I just don't understand the system.


Well for a start they'd have to take him in the PSD and hope that any of the 5 teams with a pick before them don't select Bret.

Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


So a club can try and gathers offers, accept one, or through a player through to the PSD?

Okay, thanks mate.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:22 pm
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Location: Sydney
Blue Vain wrote:
MarkNo3 wrote:
Thorton is a F@%&#! sook with an oversized ego.

People here who think they are in the know have told all and sundry that he thinks of himself as a bit of a midfielder and wants an opportunity there and has been disgruntled with Dennis for not giving him a go.
Well F@%&#! him a good team player plays where he is required not where he wants to.

The fact is we havent gotten rid of Dennis so therefore anyone who is unwilling to play under him needs to Piss off. This may see us at the bottom of the ladder for years to come but I doubt it personally. The board has made their bed by keeping him on and will be judged for it, if not in the next few months definitely by the end of next season.

If the club really wants to make a point the they stick to their guns in respect to contracts and screws the Dorks for all they can get. Thornton has put himself on the open market so we should shop him around to all and sundry and take whats best for us. I'd love to be able to do a deal with the Scum but Sheedy is probably to shrewd, but hey woudnt it be nice to see Thornton as the player with the most spoons listed against him in the record books when he retires.


Thats interesting Mark.

Lets put the boot on the other foot.
You enjoy your job immensely. Suddenly management puts a person in charge who treats you like a child. Any creativity or encouragement you had to improvise and learn state of the art skills are removed.
Your boss has old time ideals and demands you follow suit.
He doesnt accept any new ideas or welcome outside experts to train you and broaden your horizons.

The company lurches from one disaster to another and your supervisor continually blames you and your workmates and refuses to take any responsibility.
After 3 years and another abysmal year, the company threatens to remove your supervisor but doesnt have the guts to do it.
You want to learn as much as you can but this person refuses to accept modern philosphies or techniques.

A competitor offers you superior money, conditions and more importantly, the opportunity to increase your knowledge. They offer a vibrant, young, modern thinking supervisor who values your opinions and doesnt ridicule you in public.

Where would you work? :?

Friendships and loyalty are fantastic but your employer also has a responsibility.
If you are sub standard in your treatment of people, you have no right to demand loyalty in return.


BV thats all great in the REAL WORLD but we are talking about professional athletes who earn amounts most of us dream of. For 300K per season Dennis could upset me all he wants.

I'll stand by my oringal comments- Thornton is a @#$%&! Sook. Grow up Bret most of us have to live in the real world and put up with shit from our bosses becuase at the end of the day we have responsibilites.

Also BV to get an insight into my worklife as KK what he thinks of my boss. I agree with him but I need the money so I manage to accept the bullshit and get on with things. For 300K Id work 24 hours a day rather than my normal 12 and be could be a bigger prick than he already is.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:12 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Yes...then he'll end up at Essendon* or the Kangaroos. Still won't get to Hawthorn unless they're prepared to pay him something crazy.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Yes...then he'll end up at Essendon* or the Kangaroos. Still won't get to Hawthorn unless they're prepared to pay him something crazy.


And then Essendon*/North wins, Carlton loses, and Hawthorn couldn't care less. Not a good result.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Siegfried wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Yes...then he'll end up at Essendon* or the Kangaroos. Still won't get to Hawthorn unless they're prepared to pay him something crazy.


And then Essendon*/North wins, Carlton loses, and Hawthorn couldn't care less. Not a good result.


Terrible result...but the question was why Hawthorn have to offer anything for him.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:19 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17943
MarkNo3 wrote:
BV thats all great in the REAL WORLD but we are talking about professional athletes who earn amounts most of us dream of. For 300K per season Dennis could upset me all he wants.


This IS the real world. These guys have a short work life and over his work life in footy, he'll earn less than most do in their work life.

MarkNo3 wrote:
Also BV to get an insight into my worklife as KK what he thinks of my boss. I agree with him but I need the money so I manage to accept the bullshit and get on with things. For 300K Id work 24 hours a day rather than my normal 12 and be could be a bigger prick than he already is.


So, you're only there for the money? You have no loyalty to your boss or work?
Yet you expect someone else to. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1277
Location: Perth
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Not 100% sure about that. If a player is under contract, then they have to agree to the trade, that's definate. But I'm not sure that applies to a player out of contract.

Anyone know for sure?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:20 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
Quote:
Thats interesting Mark.

Lets put the boot on the other foot.
You enjoy your job immensely. Suddenly management puts a person in charge who treats you like a child. Any creativity or encouragement you had to improvise and learn state of the art skills are removed.
Your boss has old time ideals and demands you follow suit.
He doesnt accept any new ideas or welcome outside experts to train you and broaden your horizons.

The company lurches from one disaster to another and your supervisor continually blames you and your workmates and refuses to take any responsibility.
After 3 years and another abysmal year, the company threatens to remove your supervisor but doesnt have the guts to do it.
You want to learn as much as you can but this person refuses to accept modern philosphies or techniques.

A competitor offers you superior money, conditions and more importantly, the opportunity to increase your knowledge. They offer a vibrant, young, modern thinking supervisor who values your opinions and doesnt ridicule you in public.

Where would you work?

Friendships and loyalty are fantastic but your employer also has a responsibility.
If you are sub standard in your treatment of people, you have no right to demand loyalty in return.


Yeah but it is not a normal workplace BV is it, it is a footy club and Clarkson is just as much a nasty prick as Pagan who will scream just as loud and demand just as much, and if I was getting 350k i'd accept more in the 'workplace' than I would for the money I earn. Also lots of people don't 'barrack' for my workplace and come in their 1000s to watch me work. I don't wear a number and if I did no-one would wear it on their back. If Thornton had real strength of character he wouldn't turn his back on the club that has nurtured him. And I'm not sure that you intimately know all about his relationship with DP. I don't reckon DP is great either but I can't imagine he is any worse than Clarkson. Thornton really needs to understand that if he isn't a star at Hawthorn they will turn on him real quick and it will get very lonely. There'll be 15 team mates who all reckon they are better than him and worth more money. As previously said I'm with Dukes on this one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17943
steve wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Not 100% sure about that. If a player is under contract, then they have to agree to the trade, that's definate. But I'm not sure that applies to a player out of contract.

Anyone know for sure?


Yes, you're wrong on both counts.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:21 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Siegfried wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Secondly they have to hope that no one else wants to trade for Bret. If Melbourne offers us Pick 12 he's gone and Hawthorn will miss out.


Only if he chooses to go.
If Thornton doesnt want to accept a trade, it doesnt happen.


Yes...then he'll end up at Essendon* or the Kangaroos. Still won't get to Hawthorn unless they're prepared to pay him something crazy.


And then Essendon*/North wins, Carlton loses, and Hawthorn couldn't care less. Not a good result.


Better yet T-Bird goes to a club that are on the way down and at 1-2 O'clock on the premiership clock.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
MarkNo3 wrote:
BV thats all great in the REAL WORLD but we are talking about professional athletes who earn amounts most of us dream of. For 300K per season Dennis could upset me all he wants.


This IS the real world. These guys have a short work life and over his work life in footy, he'll earn less than most do in their work life.



I agree with most of what you write most of the time BV but really... :shock:

There's nothing stopping Thornton from getting a job after football doing something else. The only difference will be that he'll be doing it with $2-3 million worth of earnings behind him.

The argument that players only have a short career is crap as far as I'm concerned.

Footballers are professional athletes and that's a great achievement for which they're well rewarded but nowhere in any contract I've ever heard of did it state that being an AFL footballer excused you from ever working again after your retirement in your early 30s (except maybe in Kouta's contract :lol: ).

Should footballers earn as much in 10 years as everyone else in 45 and be in a position to sit on their arses from 35 onwards if they choose?

I don't believe so and it saddens me to think that anyone would. Perhaps if we offered that deal to nurses or ambos or anyone who does the really tough stuff I'd consider it.

I fully respect what these guys do and what they give up in order to do it but I also think what they do is a privilege that many would do for free if they were able.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 3768
bosman wrote:
Can somebody tell me why wasn't Thornton signed up mid-year ? Why was it left so late. Was his negotiations put on hold for any reasons ?

The club got off there arses to sign Kouta, Fev and Lance before the season was over last and this year.

A club doesn't wait until the end of the year to re-sign somebody unless they were already thinking about a trade..


New AFLPA agreement wasn't finalised until late in the season so clubs did not know what TPP would be.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:40 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Oh well, one less annoying nickname to put up with

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Sydney
BV yeah your right Tbird who probably only has say eight years left in him which equates to say 2.5mil in salary over that time not taking into account bonuses or sponsorships he may pick up over that period. Now me on the other hand at my present salary will take around 30 years to earn the equivilent amount putting me right on 65 year old and retirement - taking into account im lucky enough to live that line.

Now on a contract with a guaranteed income for the next three years of close the 1 mil he if smart should invest heavily in real estate knowing that his current career has a limited lifespan and he needs to provide for his future.

However at say the grand old age of 32 he retires from footy if hes smart he small property portfolio and never need to work another day again in his life. POOR @#$%&! BRET.

By the way I am a loyal employee - I always work for the companies interests and give them bloody good value for money. Must do if they had 4 Financial Controllers in the 18 months prior to my coming on board as an assistant accountant. All these had either CPA or CA and a few had an M in there yet none had managed to get a fully functinal accouting system. Financial reports were 2 years behind. Invoicing 2 months behind. Within 12 month of me taking the position (5 weeks after I started the Current FC was sacked) they have a fully functioning accounting system, staff reduced from 12 - 4 and invoicing 4-6 weeks in advance. All of that from a kid that dropped out of school at 16 and doesnt have any letters next to his name. Im a realist Loyalty is all great but at the end of the day I get paid to do a job and in return I do my job. Ask KK as I said wether he thinks my emplyer is particularily Loyal?


Oh and yeah I think Im pretty @#$%&! good at my job - just like Bret.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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GWS wrote:
I agree with most of what you write most of the time BV but really... :shock:

There's nothing stopping Thornton from getting a job after football doing something else. The only difference will be that he'll be doing it with $2-3 million worth of earnings behind him.

The argument that players only have a short career is crap as far as I'm concerned.

Footballers are professional athletes and that's a great achievement for which they're well rewarded but nowhere in any contract I've ever heard of did it state that being an AFL footballer excused you from ever working again after your retirement in your early 30s (except maybe in Kouta's contract :lol: ).

Should footballers earn as much in 10 years as everyone else in 45 and be in a position to sit on their arses from 35 onwards if they choose?

I don't believe so and it saddens me to think that anyone would. Perhaps if we offered that deal to nurses or ambos or anyone who does the really tough stuff I'd consider it.

I fully respect what these guys do and what they give up in order to do it but I also think what they do is a privilege that many would do for free if they were able.


Beautiful, GWS. Agree totally.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:45 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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MarkNo3 wrote:
Ask KK as I said wether he thinks my emplyer is particularily Loyal?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW, Mark, I agree 100% with what you say.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:49 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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I will keep it simple F@#k Off Bret. And Good Luck :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Thornton asked for $300k + for three years at the age of 22

How much would he ask for in another 3 years with three more years of development

How much is Bolton on at the Swans or Barry or Kennelly can you see Thorton being as good as them

I cant ever see this guy being a 400k plus player .

How much was Fev on at 22

how much was walker resigned for - he has more upside than TBird

Bloke has tickets on himself and for no reason at all -

no great loss

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