Because we gave him an opportunity and now hes spitting it back in our face. Thornton = flower >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

>Hamil = flower

Clearly Thornton's not happy with being at the club. I don't blame him.

He's a second tall at best and he's playing as a first tall.

He's had the toughest initial five years of any player I can remember.

He's got a coach whose gameplan sees the ball entering the defensive 50 more than any other club.

He's got a CHB in front of him who lets his man run free adding more pressure to his job.

He's at a club that offered an insulting opening bid whilst paying their aging decrepit captain $300K to wobble around the field on one leg.

He's at a club that's board is so dysfunctional that if it were a dog you'd shoot it.

Any one or more may be behind Bret's decision to leave Carlton.


The point is - that's not the point.

The point is he's going because he doesn't love the club enough to put up with the shit. Whether that's the club's fault or his fault will obviously be decided by all of us in our uninformed/a little informed/informed ways.

When Hamill left I didn't blame him. What we offered him was less than half what he was offered elsewhere. When the gap is that large it'd be difficult to stay. I expect loyalty from players but not at any price. Hamill wanted to play for Carlton and when he did no-one could question his efforts. I blame the club for that one.

Thornton is leaving because he doesn't want to be there. If that's how he feels then fine. I wish it wasn't to be and I wish he was willing to stay because he loved the place so much. But he obviously doesn't and if he doesn't want to make that sort of long term commitment then I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it.

If we get shafted on the trade I'll be livid but for now I believe he holds value to another club and if we can extract that value then I'd prefer another gun kid via the draft than a guy who wants out because he doesn't want to be there.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Fisher to full back.

Might work. Long reach quickish. gangley and awkward . Cant kick.

nah......................




.............................. maybe.

Boody hell, I go out for a coupe of hours and there's 13 pages to read.

Ok, here's my tuppence worth (no, I'm not THAT old)...

Given that he goes, what do we want for him, and what is reasonable? In all the discussion about whether we should be trading picks etc, what I kept thinking is that amongst our more serious on field problems is that we have no depth. What we need to do is increase the number of 'quality' players, both potential stars, and potential very goods and goods (you need all of those to win a Flag).

If was for that reason that I was unsure about packaging pick 17 or 19, and a good player, for a higher pick. Doing that, we actually have one fewer quality players.

I am wondering the same with Thornton. We could insist on a steaight swap for a first round pick, and have the same number of 'quality' players (although the one we pick up may take a few years to develop). We could package Thornton with pick 19, say, for a top 10 pick. But again, we then have one fewer 'quality' players.

Or...we could say we want 2 picks for Thornton, say a 10-20 pick, and a 20-30 pick. In a deep draft that has quality players up to about 30 or 35, this actually increases our number of 'quality' players at the Club, although admittedly there is uncertainty in drafted players.

What to people think?

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Exactly.

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In WADA we trust

Many people claim that Thornton is a 2nd or 3rd backman. I absolutely hate this argument. In an ideal world, that may be the case. But he has never been a 2nd or 3rd backman and he won't be at Hawthorn.

Very few clubs have true KP backman - Glass, Rutten, Michael, Scarlett off the top of my head. Most others are forced to make do. Are Clement (190cms), Presti (193cms), Hudgton (191cms) that much bigger than him?? Or different to him??? No they're not. Hawthorn aren't after him to take the 3rd best forward, they are after him to play on the best forward. Therefore, we trade with that in mind. They want a KP backman, they have to pay the price for one.

So Hawks, you want Thornton? Minimum pick 6. If that's too much for you to pay - well get lost and stop wasting our time. KP backmen don't come cheap you know.

The Hawks set the standard with Thompson and Hay - we better not accept anything less.

(Having said all this - I will be absolutely shattered if he does end up going)

So we finally know who the young player is who was unhappy because he wasn't able to play in his natural position!

Has always been a thorn in our side

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I'm shocked to be sitting here

Thornton will have to be the number one backman at the Hawks too so that excuse doesn't rub with me. If he just wants an easy way to play in a winning team then come out and say so. His manager has been whiteanting the club through the media for weeks now. He got offered a fair contract, the same as his market value, and he still walks. If he is comparing himself to Kouta the fact is he isn't fit to tie up his shoelaces.

HE IS A *edited*. 5 years of development and belief and he throws it back in our face. F#$+ HIM.

Let the auction begin ...

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In WADA we trust

i was thinking of more along the lines of Waite going back...

I agree .. you look at improving the list and you don't do it by simply getting rid of quality players for spec picks. If we can get two picks - a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder is fair compensation - and then maybe pick up McGregor in the PSD we've actually improved our list. Unexpected in how its worked out but at least theres a positive in there.

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In WADA we trust

He wants to leave for a 'fresh start" while the club offered him the same money for 3 years. What a crock of shit, he has gone for the money plain and simple.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

I think what we'll get for Thornton will depend on what the Hawks get for Everitt.

And don't tell me how much he loved the club. Us supporters pay to put up with what the club is going thru. If he can't put up with the shit for another year or so while pulling in $300K a season, then f@ck off
d!ckhead.

Why do you hate this argument? In any other Carlton side in the past 39 years he probably wouldnt have gotten a run. This is the worst backline in the league and our modern (68 and on) history.

However you are right, he will be KPP at Hawthorn and he will get one hell of a @#$%&! shock there. Whether he realises it or not Everitt is a bloody good ruckman and wont be there next year. Their midfields will have to work alot harder and I stronly suspect their backline is going to be doing a bit more in 2007. Sucked in Bret (whats with his poofy 1 t name anyway)?

[quote="mjonc"]He wants to leave for a 'fresh start" while the club offered him the same money for 3 years. What a crock of shit, he has gone for the money plain and simple.[/quote

Correct - Dawks money is guaranteed our was performance based not quite the same.

He's the same age as Polak with more games - he's worth at least a top14-15 pick in this draft.

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Also Bret enjoy next year becuase the Dorks will go backwards now they saved their coaches skin. They have as many holes as we do.

We want two first round picks and no were not prepared to trade any of our first three picks - also you need to engineer the Mcgreggor for Sporn trade for us as we will need extra presonnel involved with the recruiting process because of all of those first round picks were going to have.

Mcgroggor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bret.

I think one thing that the Club does need to do, once it becomes obvious (if it does) that he is definitely leaving, is to come out and state definitively what it wants in return for Thornton. Hawthorn and Richmond both did this with Hay, Thompson and Ottens, stated that they wanted 2 first round picks, or one first and one second, and then let any potential suitors come to the party.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch