in the looks department???

Theyre all different

They all play different roles.

Thats like saying... who do you rate better.. Ball Dal Santo or Hayes?


Those 3 can play in the same team at the same time...

Bentick and Smith are similar...

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re: Thornton....any update.?..Jake Niall on SEN suggested we wont shift from an offer of 240K a year and that Hawthorn are offering 325K and were expecting a decision from Thornton within the next day or two..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

240K per year....I guess for 3 years? It's not what I would call pulling out all stops to retain him.

I think that Carlton are playing Russian roulette, or just want players that want to be at Carlton.

The offer should have been a minimum of $285K gross over 3 years, given that Carlton would have known the Hawks offer was 325K.

Next couple of days will be interesting.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Jake Niall has also said that Max Hudghton was on just over the 300k mark - and we all know who is the better player...also made the point that Thornton is not the KPP that some people think he is - he's perfect for the 2nd or 3rd best forward...i agreed with all he had to say.

That doesn't take away from the fact that he is a required player. At 25/26 years of age, he could form an important part of our 2009/10 finals campaign. That's where the clubs perspective has to be. Bret will play his 100th game in 2007 - a great acheivement. It will take another young man 5+ seasons to get to where Thornton is at...

offer him a 830k deal at a staggered rate over 3 years. Throw in bonuses for a top 3 finish in the b&f etc. Just get the deal done and show me a picture of Bret Thornton busting his gut in the time trial around Princes Park with the quote "I was never going to leave the Blues"...which will be read by most of us as (I was just going after my market value)...

This is my take on the situation. It's pretty obvious that Thornton is happy to stay and happy to go, provided his price is met (which isn't necessarily the $325K the hawks are allegedly offering).

The longer this goes on the more I think the club is happy to meet Thornton's price but are holding out for an offer they can't refuse from the Hawks. My guess is this whole saga is a tactical ploy to get Leaunberger because our ruck division is a disaster zone. So we want to see pick 6 on the table even if it's at the expense of Thornton and a later draft pick.

We're not budging on our position so the Hawks, who obviously want to keep 6, are trying to leverage pick 15 out of Sydney so they can put together a counter offer for Thornotn. Either 15 on its own, or perhaps even 15 and 24 if they want him badly enough. I doubt we'd take this to be honest.

So it will all come down to the spider trade. If Sydney don't budge on giving up pick 15, and the Hawks still want Thornton badly enough, then that really only leaves them the option of giving up pick 6 for Thorton and pick 17 or 19.

We then take Gibbs and hope Leunberger lasts till pick 6, and try to offset the loss of Thornton by getting Polak via the PSD. If the Hawks never put pick 6 on the table, then I'm sure the contract with Thornton's preferred price on it comes out of Smorgan's bottom desk drawer and Thornton is signed up immdiately.

When you add all of that up, this could go right down to the wire during trade week, cause no one is going to want to be the side that blinks.

Otherwise you could end up with Orally or McKernan for your top 2 draft picks

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

And if the club are astute enough to do this, then it is not the worst thing that could happen.
Pick 6 is a huge enticement if it is part of the picture

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C'mon Blueboys!

I think Nightcrawler has a real point.

It has been something that has occurred to me as well. Maybe the club wants to get a midfielder and a key position player / ruckman in the top 6 this year. Maybe they've looked around and thought - well what have we got to offer? Whitnall won't cut a pick that high (plus he's got a football brain ), Stevens is questionable value for a pick that high given his age. Lappin is too old, Fish too inconsistent, Waite too injury prone.

So what is the potential bargaining chip? My guess is that it is T-Bird.

Now, if the Hawks offer us pick 6, we'd be backing ourselves that we'll have Gibbs in the bag, and then we get a choice of what is left out of Leuenberger, Riewoldt, Thorp, Sellar, and Proud (not KPP I know).

Pretty handy pick to be getting ourselves. Then we can load up on mids at picks 17 and 19, and also (just a guess here) with Port's second round pick for Russell.

It gives us a midfield (Stevens, Murph, Simmo, Walks, AB, Blackers, Gibbs, picks 17, 19, and 24), and also gives us either a ruckman, or a key position book-end to go with Kennedy.

Of course, I would expect that if the Hawks rule out pick 6 you'll see us take T-Bird off the table as quick as a flash.

I like T-Bird, and I would like him to stay. But to me, if we could get pick 6 for him then it would be the sort of aggressive recruiting that would really show we've figured out this drafting game and are serious about becoming premiership contenders again.

Pretty good summation Crawler. We're obviously going to trade week with almnost any player up for grabs at the right price. Otherwise we would've done the de-listings and nominated a 2007 captain by now.

if we can get pick 6 for Thorny then let's take it.

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end of message

It’s the only thing that makes sense to me Marci. Thornton is a good young player and I’m sure the club values him and would prefer to keep him, assuming his price is reasonable ($325K is not, but $250-$280K is).

But you need to give value to get value so if the club has made the decision that it needs Leunberger, and therefore needs pick 6, then perhaps Thornton will have to be the sacrificial lamb. I would not disagree with this strategy either if they pulled it off. We would miss Thornton is the short term but we have options coming through in defence who are 1-2 years along in their development, and if his versatility demonstrated in the SANFL form is anything to go by Gibbs himself could play in the backline for a year or two if it came down to it. But we have no quality ruck options whatsoever.

If anything, Leunberger has made this strategy more difficult by finishing the year so strongly. There is no guarantee he would even last till pick 6 now.

Would 6 + 19 = 2?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Spot on.

Trading T-Bird does burn, but T-Bird has value. For the right price, why should we second guess.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

True, there are a few if's but at that pick we can resolve two of our glaring position problems that we have

Gibbs will go 1st up and then a combination of Hansen, Gumbleton, Selwood, Thorp, Sellar Leuenberger

Best case scenario - Leuenberger & Hansen are still available
Worst case - Selwood (not that terrible BTW!)

If Bret goes, we will no doubt miss him though. Make no mistake. Players like Setanta and Bower would need to really serve a baptism of fire and Big Red can pencil himself in at CHB for a long time. Even when he is getting pantsed!!!

Im not going to bag the club for being adventurous and if they are really doing then let them play their hand and see what happens. It is fraught with danger and risk though.

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C'mon Blueboys!

I agree - it doesn’t have to be inconsistent with our youth policy. If puts the onus on O’hailpin to pick up where he left off, and for Bower, Hartlett and Flint to step-up. And maybe none of those guys will end up making it and we will create a massive defensive problem, but we have a ruck problem now and I’m not sure how much longer we can ignore it for.

It's a risk, but it's the sort of agressive calculated risk that we should be considering making if we actually want to start going forward, rather than just running on the spot for another few years.

I'm warming to trade T-Bird for pick 6 only. The only reason would be to pick up Leurnberger though. The risk is who might take him before us.

Bombers? Gibbs, Gumbleton or Hansen

Kangaroos? Have two young ruckman already will take one of the above.

Lions? I'm tipping they would take Thorp or Selwood, although with McDonald and Keating gone and the uncertainty over Wood they may be in the market for a ruckman.

Port Adelaide? Thorp or Sellar. Have Bogan, Lade and dare i say it Deluca.

Next comes us and boom crash opera we get my man the Berger King.

Defensively we are shit still, but the opportunity arises for Carlos and Hartlett to make full back there own and possibly Hansen or other players we may draft like Nathan Brown to have a crack early.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

If only I could believe that our club was that visionary.




Unfortunately I think it's more a case of...I don't know...something or other...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I think you'll find Proud might wind up getting the nod before Selwood now marci, that knee is becoming a risk.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Roos has now said they won’t give up Sydney’s 1st round pick for Spider, but their second round pick could be considered. That’s no good to the Hawks or us. Picks 24+32 won’t be good enough to get us to give up Thornton. This is how I could see it coming together:

Spider + 24 -> Sydney
15 -> Hawthorn

Thornton + 19 -> Hawthorn
6 -> Carlton

So the Hawks end up with Thornton, 15, 19 and their f/s Kennedy. They give up a top ten pick in one of the strongest ever drafts but Thornton will have and immediate impact and should have them go close to contesting finals next year. The rest of their picks are still more than handy in this draft. No doubt the Hawks have a B-lister they can trade to pick up a 2nd rounder from someone as well.

We end up with 1, 6, 17, 35. Gibbs, the Berger king, and a Conners type. Polak at 1 in the PSD unless we land a real big fish.

Sydney gets their ruckman for a tilt at another flag next year, and 24 and 32 to bring in some fresh blood in a pretty deep draft.

The trick would be holding our nerve when the Hawks offer us just pick 15 for Thornton and insisting they give us 6. This may mean giving up 17 instead and keeping 19.

If this eventuates you should all know that I will be unbearable for the next 12 months

Sydney seem to get a good deal in Everitt and pick 24 for giving away not much. I'd want another pick from Sydney forwarded to us say their third rounder. This way they can't use the pick on Jake Williams who could then sneak through as our fourth round pick if he is rated that spot

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

You won't be unbearable Nightcrawler...

For starters, Sydney have said they won't give up their first round pick. They will keep 15.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!