Just trying to cut thru the crap and to be possitive. Sick of the bitching.

B*tching and being realistic are two different things.

B*tching is when you whine about a problem that doesn't really exist and is constant, even when there's change in the situation.

Being realistic on the other hand is analysing where we are at as a footy club and coming to the conclusion that we are crap. Any attempt to sugar coat the situation will make us think we are better than we are. The fact is that we are a shambles on and off the field; any glance at the HUN or the Age will reveal that. We have contract problems with two of younger players, we have failed attempts to sack the coach, we have a coach who cannot perform in the media, we have a coach who cannot perform in the box. We have a board that vacillates constantly :carlton:, we have no money, we have brand image problems.

If you deny that any of the above are not problems CFC have at the moment, you're not being realistic. As supporters, we would like to support what the club is doing but when the club portrays itself in such an unprofessional and abysmal light, is it little wonder that us supporters want to put forward ideas about how to rectify the situation?

Some of you so-called positivists need to look at the situation - there are positives of course, but the fact is there are precious few at the moment.

If you think the club has no problems, then when the club falls over and merges with the Kangaroos, then you'll wonder what has happened.

If we don't get our act together, we'll be forced into a merger. At the moment, our off-field performances are as bad as our on-field.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Hmmm,

Contructive criticism is fine ... bitching solves nothing.

If it were up to some of the people on this site, we would turn over all players once they reach 25 ... in so doing lose the soul of the club...just become another business ... football is more than that! And .. hell ... some would get rid of our coaches every 2 or 3 years .. even if we are starting from the worst position in the history of our club. The interesting thing about Pagan ... is that the people calling for his head were the ones that predicted a required 6 year period to restore the club.

So just keep eating away at what we held once as important... forget about loyalty .... forget about integrity ... all that matters is success at any price ... and u will never have success ... and on the way u will lose more than u think.

Time to start thinking about what has worked ... time to be optimistic. Enough negativity ... we all know about the problems ... the issues. Supporters need to make a stand. When did loyalty and integrity become dirty words ... they should be the fabric that binds us. We all hate being where we are ... if u have a solution let it be known ... but lets cut out the personal attacks.

Carlton needs change ... but the biggest change needs to happen with its supporters.

Nah you are wrong Rob the Carlton supporters have been through enough over the last 5 years they have been tolerant and supportive despite the mismanagement of the club. Membership has shown this and despite our on field performance crowds have been surprisingly good in most instances.

Supporters have had enough and they should be allowed to have their Bitch

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Then we are now Richmond ... and that is very sad indeed.

No Rob we are closer to fitzroy than Richmond

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Please consider that footy fans are all the same regardless of team. It is the environment in which they find themselves that will determine their view of the team and the overall psychology of the fanbase. Constant disappointment is likely to lower your future expectations and diminish your hopes, leading to an overall negative view and potentially an inability to see the upside. This would be your Richmond fan.

Carlton have had 5 years of being Richmond (or arguably worse than that) and we're unhappy. Expecting success normally, 2006 has been an extreme disappointment unless you have the ability to pick out the positives. Poor leadership or the perception thereof hurts our ability to see the upside as we see or hear nothing but complaints about draft picks, 'we've been to hell & back' (please! imagine life as a fan...at least you can do something about it!)....

Id suggest without proper & effective leadership, embracing the draft and actively trading we arent going to get back up to the top and we will be Richmond-like for no other reason than we're crap and stuck on the bottom.

M

Whatever! (better fitzroy than richmond).

Supporters have put in the hard yards over the past few years.
Our membership results indicate that.
The club needs to start making them believe from now on in and more importantly show it's actually "turning the titanic" around.

I have to say i wish we were like Richmond. they may have turned on their club for a bit but their administration turned it around. I'm not so confident that ours will. There is a lot of chat on this site about other clubs and history and so on. The fact is we are the worst performing home and away side of the last 10 years - not just 5 - 10 YEARS!!

I am talking of the old Richmond! ...

I'm a big beleiver in Loyalty but at the moment my loyalty is in conflict with the 'Blind Faith' that seems to be a pre-requisite. If you feel something is wrong and you pretend that it is not, is this being loyal? Or is this in fact being disloyal.

Would it have been loyal to vote Jack back in office a couple of years ago? After all he was a True Blue!!

My loyalty is to the club and not necessarily to individual itinerant office holders or employees. Individuals can come and go but the club is bigger than that. Does this make me disloyal? I'll buy my membership every year but that doesnt mean I wont take an interest and use my right to vote for whomever I think will do the best job of running the club.

Sitting, as I am in a vaccum where I am drip fed the occasional sparse announcement from my club whilst, at the same time being barraged by negative news, announcements, press, results and performance, it's hard to see too much to hang my hat on at the moment.

I am not a feral madman who'd pay to have a truckload of chickenhearts dumped at the door of the club, but I find it increasingly harder to just sit on my hands and sing the club song whilst thinking: 'we'll be OK...we are Carlton....everyone who pulls on the Navy Blue is a champion" etc etc

If the office holders at the club want my loyalty they need to give me a reason to beleive (and they are starting from a long way back).

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

So is that a YES for trading Thornton?

No from me.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Hey blue rob no positive posts, against the rules, not allowed. That is a no no.

Have they really? All I think they've done is bought a little time, for what I don't know. Their fans might have been conned for the short term but when Richo retires the sh** will hit the fan when they realise that they've got no kp players and only a mediocre midfield.

just seen the membership renewal brochure for 2007 and if we are trading Brad Fisher then there'll be a lot of re-printing required. Youth certainly seems to be the theme. Main image is a big photo of fish, Simmo, JK, Eddie, 1AW and MM.

The one picture of the more experienced players has Fev, Lance and Stevo together. Stevo in the middle, fev & lance either side. Doesnt say who is captain, but could this be a clue.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Have prices in it?

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Yep, not sure if posting it all is a good idea (PM me). Has another photo, the only one of the more experienced players and has Stevo in the middle flanked by Lance & Fev. No mention of Captain but I'm wondering if it's a clue???

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

It'll be a travesty if Lance is not Captain next season..........but then again; with the Club in disarray.............who knows?