The club is last....
The club has a salary cap...
The club has a list its trying to grow.

The club spends money on Kouta, Saddington,Teague (2 years)McLaren was going for Gardiner,,

The club skimps on Thornton/Simpson etc

The club is going to sink even further...


Headplant.
So what youre saying is Smorgon should ive Pagan 2 years then challenge him on who Pagan wants to recruit publicly.. and also not bring in any money????

Because thats exactly whats going on...


You obviously cant distinguish the roles of President and coach..

Anyway.... because our president and coach (that our president has kind of rubber stamped again for next year) were travelling beautifully.. and im glad youre right behind them... and stand as one with them .
Excellent foot soldier... now you have 15 seconds to prepare and when the whistle blows jump over the trench and run as fast as you can towards the enemy lines ... dont let the machine guns scare you...


Sometimes.. you do have to question stupidity!!!..

And Smorgon going public on the list and getting into specifics is a guy who has no idea about anything.
His role is to tell Pagan what the guidelines are for the media or sack him if there is conflict.
not have yet ANOTHER each way bet...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

See, that's where some of you who seem to be so blase about losing Thornton lose it.

A lot of you are relying on Hartlett to stay fit - given his record over the last 2 years, that's wishful thinking. Yes, he might have shown quite a bit but what if Hartlett does go down with another injury? Who plays on the opposition key forwards? McGrath?

You see, the thing that Thornton gives us is FLEXBILITY. Even if he is more suited to playing on the 3rd tall, the fact is that he is capable of playing on the 1st or 2nd tall and given some help from the midfield, capable of doing a very good job. Sure he's been beaten a few times, but so was SOS, Langford had 9 kicked on him in the 1989GF, Doull was towelled up by Dunstall in the 1986GF, etc etc.

The other thing that the people who don't seem to be giving Thornton his due respect argue is that he'd be a good player on the 2nd or 3rd tall. Ok, but if he leaves, who plays on the 1st tall? The solution is not to say, "Thornton can't play on the best tall, therefore we should trade him" - the solution is to draft someone or trade for someone or DEVELOP someone (golly, does CFC know what that means anymore???) to do that role whilst KEEPING Thornton so that when we have that 1st tall defender, Thornton can then play on the 2nd or 3rd tall.

Thornton knockers - answer this question please. Who would play his role if he left? Who would take the best forward every week? Who is our 2nd best key defender? Who is our 3rd best key defender? Because if Thornton leaves, the 2nd and 3rd best defenders will have to take 1st and 2nd.

Is the current 2nd key defender able to take on the best forward each week?

If your answer is Hartlett - it's dependent on injuries
If your answer is Whitnall - it's
If your answer is Livo - then where have you been this year?
If your answer is Setanta - then sure he showed quite a bit, but i think the team looks better with Thornton AND Setanta in it
If your answer is Bower - then you haven't seen that he is more a player who prefers to play on the 2nd tall or more the running HBF role.


The thing is that ALL defenders have to be able to create some run out of defence. SOS was good at it, it wasn't just Prestigiacomo pure negation. Langford was good at it. You look at Gaspar and Presti now - they provide no run at all.

I want the people who don't mind having Thornton traded answer these questions. Because from what I see, there are no logical answers to our structure if Thornton leaves.

Look what happened in 2005 when he was injured? We win the Wizard Cup, lose Thornton and then we get big scores kicked against us in the first few rounds of 2005 - denting our confidence and setting us for Murphy and Kennedy

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Hartlett will be 20 next year.. at that age T Bird already had thirty games under his belt at full back!...


And Hartlett is not a defender...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No Clem thats not what I am saying what Iam saying is neither of these two guys are that good.

People saying that Thorton has been alone down back had to take the best forward - For F#*#k sake give me a break Pagan has had 3/4 of the side parked in the back half for 4 years trying to cover out shitty defence of which Thorton was one . Alone down back I dont know what games you blokes have been watching if he was that good they would have built a defence around him but did they no they sent Whitnal down back to cover for him .I'd even say Beaumont was a better defender than Thorton

And Fisher what has he done other than show a bit a promise has he ever bagged 4-5 goals in a game no - has he managed to string a few good games together no . Jaarod Waite makes Fisher look good and waite has done nothing either .


these two blokes are good average players nothing else they are not world beaters and they are not stars of the future and the club has a policy in place that anything over two years has to be ok'ed by the board . thorton and fisher have not done enough to force the club into breaking its policy - give them two years at 220k nothing more

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

But 3/4 of the side do not play on the main forwards.. only Thornton does...

just as he did before Pagan came to the club

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yes Synbad and just like when a bloke who learnt to kick the ball 3 years ago had to cover for him and take one of the best forwards in the game in round 22 because he was getting towelled up

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

If that was the criteria for being traded, Lance would be at his 6th club.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

T Bird can run too.. and Lance cant....

So sydney blue... if Setanta covers for T Bird on occasion and T Bird covers for Lance on more than one ocassion... who does Lance cover for is the question you should be asking yourself...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yes but when Lance was 22 he had already kicked 70 odd goals one year and 55 in another and both T'Bird and Sentanta are taller and should be more capable of taking the leading defender but on most occassions that was given to Lance . See we keep saying T'Bird is not the right size to cover leading forwards and is playing out of his depth . But you expect Lance to do it and he is shorter. Who one the B&f by the way

the guy is not that good and shouldn't be making stupid demands on the club . We have had enough of this in the past

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

No more lengthy contracts. We've been down that path before and got burnt.

And anyone who wants to use the media to get a contract hike and a lengthy term is barking up the wrong tree. The Club did the right thing releasing a media statement about same.

Stevens is the only player on our list on more than $500,000 but as a wooden spoon team no-one should be. We have no game winners in our side and the half a million bracket should be reserved for players who can win a game off their own boot. We don't have anyone who can do that.

Where we're at, soething between $200,000 and $300,000 is spot on for these guys.

You see Sydney - that's not what I have issues with. All decent defences have players back to help the key defenders - look at Adelaide - flood numbers back and then run forward to create options.

Fisher is different to Thornton. I agree Fisher needs to show more - however, Thornton's record is far superior to Fisher and how about 2003, 2004 when he didn't miss a game -

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I'm just hoping this is all media byplay a la Kouta's contract.

It will get sorted out, we'll keep both for reasonable amounts - I think $200k for Fish and $250k for Thornton is about right - and we'll look to add more youth in the draft.

Relax people, its amazing how even our younger and more talented players get bagged so quickly givent he opportunity. They may not be the finished article just yet but they are the best we've got at the moment!!

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In WADA we trust

Source

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Based on press reports when Camporeale's contract was under review last year. It was reported that (and is widely known) that Stevens was one of the players on a contract in excess of $500,000 along with Camporeale, Whitnall and Koutoufides. Camporeale is gone, Whitnall renogotiated to the mid 400s and Koutoufides recently re-signed. That leaves Stevens.

Verbs I don't know if you've noticed this at all, but when the press don't know something, they make shit up. I'd take anything in the media with a grain of salt.

When in Rome...

Well Stevens better have a $500,000 year in 2007.

With the return of Murphy, improvement in Bentick, Carrazzo and Blackwell, then throw in for support Simpson, Kouta, Walker, Houla and possibly Gibbs, he has to.

The window for $500K contracts is closing, and I would prefer to see a more egalitarian approach with our team in the future with regards to salaries paid. I'd rather a champion team made up of good footballers playing around the $250-$300K mark, than a team made up of a few (old and tiring) champions on the $500K mark with a bunch of disgruntled underpaid footballers and sitting on the bottom.

Thornton is worth $250K over 3 years at the very least, he's earned it, and Fisher shouldn't be paid more than $210, as we might find it hard to offload him as trade if signed on anything higher than this sum.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if there was ample room in our salary cap; which incidently there should be given that Koutas back ended $900K contract has ended.

Surely Thronton and Fisher can see the future and the potential of the deep list of good kids. I'm sure it will get sorted, because if it doesn't, I'm sure Hansen will be viewed more seriously for the #1 pick. We want Gibbs.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Thornton is an accomplished defender. I think it is due to circumstance, him being the best fit after SOS departure.

I don't think he is that great or naturally gifted at FB but he is so so crucial to us at this point in time, two years down the track we all hope that Hartlett makes it and maybe Setanta improves in leaps and bounds but we can't trade him or let him walk in the hope that what I mentioned turns out.

In the short term he is probably more important to us than some here suggest. If he can continue the form he had in the second half of last year, providing he doesn't get injured I see no reason why this won't happen then it will put our backline even more out of whack if he departs.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Haven't read all this thread but i'll start by saying Thornton and Fish are both tradeable IMO... I'm of the train of thought that we could actually trade one and keep the other without doing ourselves too much harm.

Which one to trade though... If the Tigers get Polak then we'd be keeping Thornton. If they don't then what can we get from Richmond for Thorton is my question.

As for Fish, i'm thinking a club like Geelong might like Fish... And what would the Cats give us??

Have to give something to get something and although both can walk via the PSD i don't see it happening. My belief is we'll either lose one or keep both.

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

There might be a bit of interest going around for Thornton. Richmond could justify giving up their pick 8 for a 22 year old who plays on the best defender each week despite it being the 'super draft'.

Pick 8 would allow us to pick up Selwood or Leurenberger.

Hansen at pick 1 to replace Thornton and another two mids at 17,19.

The club would have to seriously consider this scenario.

Unfortunately short term thinking would stop Carlton doing such a trade but it would be a great signal to the footballing world and supporters we have finally embraced the system. Then picks 1 and 2 the following year - oh I'm getting a woody just thinking about it.

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