Hey John not having a go but would you feel the same if it was Ben Cousins?

take out the (for nothing) and read it again

Take out "Michael Gardiner" and I'll read it 500 more times

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Congratulations CK95

Anyone remember one Laurence Angwin?

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

So John when was the last time you did jury duty ??

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

FWIW JohnM I think that is a very important stance you have taken and have been racking my brain over doing a similar thing. I struggle on a personal level to do it whilst we are so short of members, believing the financial side to be so poor at the moment that they need every one of us.

But I was also thinking of a 'Contributor strike' in response. Whilst we're only volunteers I think we at least are well known enough at Carlton Communications and to a few Board members that a 1 pager resigning our positions in case of Gardiner being selected as signed by Footygeek, M&D, the Ghost, the Buzz and Bluey (I'm sure he's somewhere around here) plus a personal presentation to anyone we can find may be another small way to push this point.

Not sure how I'll cope without writing but I'm sure theres hundreds of great stories in the Blueseum I could pen?

Any thoughts?

That is why i wrote pretty good not excellent.

Who exactly do you address an email to registering your thoughts?

I'm happy to do the same if they go to the right person. And individual emails / contact is much more powerful than pre-formatted petitions etc (in most cases).

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

You not buying a membership will hinder the club more than carlton going and getting Gardiner. Grow up support the club with a membership or don't have your say on any issues regarding this club in the future unless you are a paid up member, because i won't take them seriouslly! I also don't agree with getting him but i will and have been a member for 28 long and glorious years. I support them 2 get it right down there sooner rather than later.

The best thing for the club is to get someone in who is not under pressure to "produce". Thats a list manager who can make strategic decisions on the list. Think Pelchen from the Hawks who traded a few senior players and slowly and surely picked the eyes out of the 2004 and 5 draft.

Dont leave it up to a coach who is under pressure and has some sort of reputation to maintain. Someone batting for survival.

Its about "timing" your list to mature together. Identifying strategic weaknesses and the way to overcome them. Who might be traded and the effect on the playing list and what you can get for them and weigh it up. Putting yourself right in the mix for young kids by gaining extra picks where you believe you are getting value.

So for example it was Hawthorn with complicated deals in 2005 but at the end of the day they wanted more picks in the top 25. Nothing after that. They identified some speed and skill and wanted a few kids who had it and were likely to be around in that range. They knew other clubs did not rate last years draft that highlyand they loved on them.

So Birchall/Bailey/Muston were picked after Ellis and Dowler were taken early. A young ruckman was taken (most likely they already knew then Spider would not be there after 2006) and a careful strategic risk was taken on a young ruckman. Same sort of risk/reward was done on Muston.

Birchall fits the modern style of game and brings hard running and long kicking and versatility. Moving with the times.

Its a lot easier to do this with a glut of draft picks no doubt.

But we are in the same situation this year. We have ruck problems and midfield problems. Where will the rucks and runner be in the draft. You try and work that out and you see where your picks are and then you might try to acquire a couple of more picks to fill out a stretegic weakness while working within the principle of picking the best player.

So for me thats pick 20 to 35 for the midfielders. Thats where value is for me relative to the pick. The earlier picks will be sewn up and very hard to trade them from a club without paying a huge price. Getting into the 2nd round we move towards the range of a very good prospect and not a gun one. Clubs have already had a pick and might be prepared to take a player and give up a very good "prospect" but not a gun one.

Wooby I really dont think email is the way to go. The Club is so short on resources they tend to put the emails to the side and get volunteers in to write responses, if you're lucky. Hopefully the incoming emails have died down a little given the end of the season (which is a double edged sword in its own right... we stillw ant people to be passionate) but in my view to get a message to the decision makers at Carlton you need the message and the decision maker - you cannot have anything in between.

Come on Saddo needs someone to sit next to and watch games with

I'm with you John, but instead of threatening to dump your membership altogether, you should simply say that for every stupid, short-sighted, self-interested recruiting decision Denis makes this off-season, you'll down grade your membership one category. So given Gardiner is:

a) over 23
b) has ongoing injury issues that would impair his ability to ruck
c) is of dubious moral charater

then Denis would have wracked up three downgrades just on this one player. Four if he was actually dumb enough to swap a pick for him.

That way you're not causing the club financial pain, they're doing it to themselves and they can make it stop any time they want to. It's the same "self-inflicted pain" principle used by the US during their tort ... ah, I mean, coersive interrergation sessions.

troybond, I hear what you're saying about supporting the club. But:

1. I don't need to 'grow up'. I'm perfectly capable of making a considered, rational decision that sits comfortably with me.

2. I don't think I'm chucking a hissy-fit. I've thought this through quite carefully.

3. I think I have the choice whether or not to put money into an organisation that would align itself with someone of Michael Gardiner's (alleged) character. And I think that the club would be making a morally bankrupt decision in drafting him (aside from it being shortsighted in a football sense).

4. I know that the club needs every dollar it can get. But I believe, far more than that, that the club needs to chart a consistent course forward... to stand for something... to NOT expose our developing young list to someone like Michael Gardiner. I believe the club needs this more than it needs my money.


The Game: would it be any different if it was Ben Cousins? Like anything in life, you weigh up pros and cons (no pun intended). If Ben Cousins came to Carlton via the PSD, I probably think the nett result would be beneficial to Carlton. That is, his positives would outweigh his negatives for us.

But there's a reason West Coast are cutting Gardiner adrift. And I firmly believe that the nett result for Carlton would be negative.

It's a tough question, because it could never happen. But with Cousins, I'd probably turn a blind eye to his escapades. Not morally consistent with my stance on Gardiner, but sometimes pragmatism rules over idealism.

That's clever, nightcrawler. I like it.

Cool, it was probably an unfair comparison because on the field and on the training track there are few as professional as Cousins. It can't be the case with Gardiner considering Worsfold didn't even want him training with the group.

We are Carlton, flower the rest, a smart man said that.

I do not care who we recruit i will buy a membership, obviously they will make decisions based on what we think is best for the team.

Don't have to agree with every desicion, but you have to support their desicions, as if they would make desicions they knew would hurt the club, Gardiner is a punt they might take coz we need a ruckman. If it was any other type of player we wouldn't take that punt.

I'd be in that - I am disgusted that we are even considering taking Gardiner!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

And it's been said several times, Michael Gardiner is unable to ruck for extended periods. Have a read of Mojo's summary in the Gardi thread in the recruitment section.

I've done the same that JohnM has. I'm not going to put up with this and neither should any of you. Send an email to the club and voice your concerns about the potential recruition of Michael Gardiner.

We, as supporters, DON'T want or need Michael Gardiner/

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24