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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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In the euphoria that followed the 1995 premiership, I became disconcerted when virtually no changes were made to our list, that was by far and away the oldest of any in the competition. There was a sense that the group had had their last hurrah and defied the 'Too old, too slow' knockers.

Since that time, I have had year after year of dismay about the direction of our club, both on and off the field.

The retention of Justin Madden, the trading away of draft selections for has beens or rejects, and the rejection of professionalism in favour of '80's style behaviour made my worries grow.

In 1999 we had a freakish run which got us into the Grand Final, and even though there was a sense that we should never have got near that game, it seemed the powers that be thought all was well. The acrimonious departure of Aaron Hamill (regardless of how people perceive the player's role) was handled in poor fashion by Elliott and co, who failed to appreciate the changing nature of contract negotiations.

The absurdity of player administration reached its peak with the Koutoufides deal, further confirming our club's status as the laughing stock of the AFL. This was where I thought we had hit rock-bottom, as placing @ 20% of our salary cap with one player was clear lunacy.

Little did I know how much further we had to plunge!

And to think John Elliott described Footscray as tragic. :roll:

The litany of disaster continued, with the salary cap rorting and attendant penalties, the disgraceful dumping of Brittain (not the fact he was terminated, but how it was handled), the white elephant that is the 'Legends' stand, the dismantling of our brand, and the lurching from one public scandal to another.


But we got a new board, and all would be well!


A couple of things have looked OK, with the move from Princes Park that should've occured 15 years earlier, and the proposed redevelopment of our ground as a training venue.

But the hits have kept on coming. Whether it be half-baked sponsorship deals that dragged our image down further or extending Pagan's contract despite there being no reason to do so, but definitely a sense that waiting could be a good idea.

The unceremonious exit of Ian Collins was certainly a 'highlight' of 2005, and the very public debate about whether we should retain Whitnall and Fevola certainly was memorable.

Even though we collected our second Wooden Spoon, I thought things are finally looking up.

2006 ushered in further incompetence, culminating in re-signing Koutoufides after yet again being dragged through the media mud, despite his form hardly warranting consideration of his returning in 2007. Another Wooden Spoon for our 'proud' club and this latest farce over Denis Pagan.

Now there is plenty I'm sure I've left out, but I write this because I've noticed a long-established trend in our club, and that is we have been easily the worst managed, at all levels, since Fitzroy, and even they could lay claim to better administration.


In summary, I've had a gutful, and I've especially had a gutful of apologists for the current incompetent board of directors.

Those with a sense of history will be aware that the last time we had a sustained period of disasters, the club dentist, George Harris, took charge and turned the ship around.

We have reached that point again, in fact, we reached it a long time ago.

If Dick Pratt, or someone of his ilk reads Talking Carlton, then I plead for them to act. Forget about waiting for certain events to happen, the time to move is now.

Our membership fell by 5,000 people this season, and unless a complete reform group takes charge, we can be certain of another substantial decline for 2007. On top of that, can we seriously expect to attract professional administrators or sponsors while the circus continues?

So please, Dick, Fraser or whichever other influential professional, please get on the job and turn our beloved club around.

We, the diehard Carlton supporters, have had enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Can't argue with a word of that. Well said Jack.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jack agree with most of what you have written, for the record though Collo resigned this year not last year (not that it matters).

My only point of difference is that in 2000 we were a super team, we won 13 straight and were really unlucky not to be pushing for the flag. It was the pre-season after that year when action should have happened - that's when things went terrible. Although I do take your point on older players staying on - Maddens not retirement in 95' was disgraceful!

I agree entirely with your thoughts about any potential benefactors or would be presidents. Don't throw money in when times are good, it is when we are at our lowest that we need you even more. A large scale donation would have such a flow on effect with members and a brighter out look for the future - but I am not holding my breath!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:37 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Personally I'd love to see Maclure step in with a ticket. At least he's got some cajones.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Well said Jack...emotion came through. But I can see light at the end of the tunnel - hopefully you can too?

A couple of things still haven't been bought up or resolved.

1. Bruce Mathieson is moving to QLD. This last board meeting was possibly his last. He's always felt sorry for Denis and what he has had to put up with - so no surprises that DP got his vote. But at what loss is he to the CFC?

*But with the departure of BM comes more rumblings. He wasn't just instrumental in the Dan Murphy's sponsorship deal - he coordinated and instigated the whole bloody thing. They're on board for at least another year - but without Bruce - will that deal last?

2. Adrian Gleeson doesn't look like he'll hang around.

*Thought he had the numbers and when you don't and left out to dry - you've got to go....a short stay - just how costly will that be? Bear has a lot of mates...but has he just lost one in his former skipper?

3. Money. We need it and the rumour mill has come up with a few names over the last 6 months. Caro even showed her lack of knowledge by suggesting the Pratt Foundation would kick in the funds! 'Dog' Brown is the last one to put his hand up - but it's my feeling you'd have to be a part of a forthcoming ticket to put your hand in your wallet or be on the board to begin with. I'm sure the current board didn't like the 'stipulations' this money came with.

* I can't see it happening. But with SOS looking increasingly likely to be a big part of the action - Ahmed Fahour has a contact who'll know exactly what's going on...and so will Daniel Grollo. If it's going to come from anywhere - it's here and in 12 months...but it will have stipulations with it too...after all - money always does.

4. Change is needed from the other side as well. I'm talking about the AFL. It will happen...but it will take some time too. They have something over us - and it's big and confidential. Just like when the new President comes to office..."Shit - so that's what happened in Roswell - WOW!" - and "Really...JFK? huh - well...I guess we had no choice"


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:07 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Great post, Jack.

You should consider writing to Dick Pratt yourself.

Either that, or make it a bit shorter and take out an ad in the Herald Sun. It's not cheap, but if enough people kicked in a hundred bucks (count me in) it could be done.

Or write a classified ad in the employment section, under Club President. You can get one of those for under a hundred bucks. Something like: must be able to organise the football dept. without turning the entire process into a media circus.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Just do what I do.

Think of Murphy's return. Think of Kennedy. Think of Bower. Think of the rookies even. Think of Setanta's last game. Think of Aisake - he'll make it too. Think of Blackers and Walker in particular. Then add 5 more good uns this year.

Much like banks, footy clubs in the era of the draft will succeed (defined here as improve performance) sometimes in spite of themselves. We all expected more in 2006 (most did) but it didnt happen. If he muffs it next year its hard to see him staying. If he succeeds then we'll all enjoy it, other than the 07 tankers like Jarusa and others.

The weight of draft picks will bring about improvement at some stage. Its all about timing and who will be in charge and take the credit when we rebound. The longer it takes for the rebound the fewer of those currently in charge will be around.

And if that doesn't get you go to www.blueseum.org and think about the 95 years or so before the deacde of despondency!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
4. Change is needed from the other side as well. I'm talking about the AFL. It will happen...but it will take some time too. They have something over us - and it's big and confidential. Just like when the new President comes to office..."Shit - so that's what happened in Roswell - WOW!" - and "Really...JFK? huh - well...I guess we had no choice"


Nice post Dr.SHERRIN, i'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here though.

Are you saying that the AFL has knowledge about the club that could perhaps be detrimental? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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re: Point 4 - the AFL need the Carlton Football Club - but they also hold the cards. They have something on us - that perhaps for reasons of probity between the club and the league won't be devulged - but it still looms large over our heads.

This is why no legal challenge over priority picks...Commissioner Fitzpatrick sitting in on meetings / Jim Watts to 'oversee' some matters....all without a whimper from the Carlton Football Club.

This sudden change of heart by Sticks could also be related to it. I'm sure the AFL really didn't want to see 'Dog' Browns cheeky grin on the back of a Melbourne newspaper - the man neither AFL investigator Ken Wood nor the ATO could get anything from!

A quick word from Fitzy to Sticks was all that was needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Nice posts Jack W and Dr Sherrin. As emotional as it may be, your passion is hard hitting and to the point. The times have changed, as will time change all things before it.

I'd say we have learned alot from our complacency in the last decade. I hope that all board members and MC realise that with the responsibility of their role comes scrutiny. Supporters are not blind. It's time to get things moving forward. We have a young list (full of potential), that may just come up trumps. There's no excuse for going backwards in 2007.

We've hit the bottom of the barrel, and still in our 5 year sentence. Hopefully we all have learned a valuable lesson that the club is bigger than the individual.

What gets me through all this shit....I do what Molsey does:

Molsey wrote

Quote:
Just do what I do.

Think of Murphy's return. Think of Kennedy. Think of Bower. Think of the rookies even. Think of Setanta's last game. Think of Aisake - he'll make it too. Think of Blackers and Walker in particular. Then add 5 more good uns this year.

Much like banks, footy clubs in the era of the draft will succeed (defined here as improve performance) sometimes in spite of themselves. We all expected more in 2006 (most did) but it didnt happen. If he muffs it next year its hard to see him staying. If he succeeds then we'll all enjoy it, other than the 07 tankers like Jarusa and others.

The weight of draft picks will bring about improvement at some stage. Its all about timing and who will be in charge and take the credit when we rebound. The longer it takes for the rebound the fewer of those currently in charge will be around.


Plus the rest of the kids Molsey....great posts boys!!!!!

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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:39 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
re: Point 4 - the AFL need the Carlton Football Club - but they also hold the cards. They have something on us - that perhaps for reasons of probity between the club and the league won't be devulged - but it still looms large over our heads.

This is why no legal challenge over priority picks... Commissioner Fitzpatrick sitting in on meetings / Jim Watts to 'oversee' some matters....all without a whimper from the Carlton Football Club.

This sudden change of heart by Sticks could also be related to it. I'm sure the AFL really didn't want to see 'Dog' Browns cheeky grin on the back of a Melbourne newspaper - the man neither AFL investigator Ken Wood nor the ATO could get anything from!

A quick word from Fitzy to Sticks was all that was needed.


So, you're working on a gut instinct here? Or something that has been said?

Just seems to have come from left field, that's all.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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titimus - its called wild imagination - yep the AFL have a big secret about us and its all very hush hush, yeah right.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:57 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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kingkernahan - I actually rate Dr Sherrin's posts. It seems to me that he's intimating something here -- or maybe he's not -- either way i'm seeking clarification.

Is that okay with you?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
re: Point 4 - the AFL need the Carlton Football Club - but they also hold the cards. They have something on us - that perhaps for reasons of probity between the club and the league won't be devulged - but it still looms large over our heads.

This is why no legal challenge over priority picks...Commissioner Fitzpatrick sitting in on meetings / Jim Watts to 'oversee' some matters....all without a whimper from the Carlton Football Club.

This sudden change of heart by Sticks could also be related to it. I'm sure the AFL really didn't want to see 'Dog' Browns cheeky grin on the back of a Melbourne newspaper - the man neither AFL investigator Ken Wood nor the ATO could get anything from!

A quick word from Fitzy to Sticks was all that was needed.


Thanks Doc.

A great insight. Can you tell me why then was Collo so keen to resist going to the AFL for money (which I supported his decision).
It sounds like they had us in their pocket anyway. :(

BTW, great post JW.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Of course its okay with me, I wasn't having a go at you I was having a go at the Doctors wild imagination.

What I am getting at is if the AFL are sitting on something it would be something that we have done wrong - something that the other clubs would expect us to either be punished for or not be allowed to do etc.

If the AFL covered this up they are putting us above every other club which is a no no.

The AFL would not do this becuase it would only be a matter of time before an ex president or board member would let it become public knowledge.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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If you guys think the good Dr is off the mark then it just goes to show how much some of you know about the current club.
He is on the money. Pagan was gone until the "AFL" stepped in, yep the "AFL" ... the guys that are running our club and have been for a while. :oops:

Pity Collo change the rules and the meeting dates & times for general meetings. By March next year will all have other things on our minds again. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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surrey you have to give me more then that, yes the AFL might have said we strongly advise you to retain Pagan but it wouldn't have been a case of 'or we will reveal blah blah blah'. What they wouldn't lend us the money that they already have done and that we have to pay them back anyway.

Give me an example of what they could have over us.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Can't help but feel Brittain is treated with rose coloured glasses by many on this forum. He took a team from the finals to a wooden spoon in one fell swoop and then would have cut Houlas and Fev whilst presiding over possibly the worst trades in the history of the club ... McKernan and Eccles. He slaughtered the list by getting rid of talented youngsters such as Massie and Backwell and if he'd stayed another year who knows what madness would have happened in his pursuit of 'accountable footballers'.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Why did you fail to mention the injuries in 2002?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-read_a ... rticleId=5

Injuries??? 2002???


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