But Jim, they had a fair bit better material to work with, and are we all sure DP has lost the players. He'd lost plenty of them in 03 but I would have thought that we didn't put in many insipid performances this year, I think we were mainly beaten by better sides. We have the worst group of players at this stage. Where would Mitch get them to? And do all the players love him? There's something about Mitch I don't like, can't quite put my finger on it, but he has been a less succesful coach over the last few years than Mark Williams at Sandy and I'm not suggesting him for an AFL post. Micth has the best VFL list this year, will he win a flag? He should. How much does that mean? Also the idea of having rich supportesr nominate their mate for the job is a pretty unhealthy precedent. I don't think we'll be much better next year, I'm already thinking draft picks.

Pagan's public face has been pretty supportive to players. I think he is yesterdays man, lacks tactical nous, but is strong in fundamental areas which will stand us in good stead in the future. AW as a defender for instance - yes AW will be a great attacking player for us, and all the better for learning the accountability necessary.

At the end of the day we shouldn't have sacked Britts. I would have much preferred Eade or someone more current and tactical than DP if Britts was sacked at the end of his contract. I don't think DP is great but I also think he is pretty sharp and will realise he needs to do some pretty special things in the next two years. In fact after next season he'll be easier to pay out if necessary.

Maybe everyone else on here thinks we have a great list. I think it is a 15th/16th list. Until we get a quality ruckman and several more quality midfielders, JC could be coach and we'd struggle....on second thoughts I'd make him playing coach and we might go alright!

oky I'll bite jimmae because I'm finding your tone nauseating to say the least. Are you simply trying to score points for some pie-in-the-sky agenda?

Are you implying that Synners EB Kennyhunter Dr Sherrin Josh BV and some others, are making this all up based on rumours? And from your tone, just so they can all big note themselves?

and withoiut these info feeders what we get to go oin and on and on about who to draft? is Caz included in this mob or do you like this info, therefore regard it differently?

Perhaps you believe no one from the club ever talks to anyone else (actually that doeesn't seem to far off the mark lately).

Are you suggesting some one(s) have been feeding them misinformation? If so explain why the Board would do that. And do you think that is a sound way for a Board to operate?

Are you simply trying to protect the club you love so much (you know like when your brother tries to steal your teddy)?

Do you love Denis and see this as an opportunity to consumate your desire?

Or are you having fun because the Board/club is in a shambles and people you've been dying to have a dig at seem upset?

Sorry jimmae but other than the above I really can't see the point of your posts and unlike BV I can't ignore shit, I have to try and shovel it out of the way - which, incidentally, is why I am a much nicer person than BV

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

And who exactly do you think you are going to replace the current board with? It's not as if candidates are knocking the door down. I guess there is Colin DeLutis, who i'd be happy to give another go, but the ever so important sheep cried and moaned and said he will never be back at Carlton.

I'm surprised three quarters of our list haven't demanded to be traded because they hate Pagan so much, instead guys are re-signing with the club, odd. I don't think some of you realise how tough footy clubs are. If we start winning games again the sheep will be bleating how great Pagan is and to extend his contract. I'm pleased common sense has prevailed in this case.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

Not in my opinion Verbs.
If the board dont trust the senior coach sufficiently to do his job without them holding his hand, that would suggest he isnt up to scratch.

Is that who we want "grooming" a replacement?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

A response is what Jimbob wants Danny.
In another thread he is asking the mods to step in about the rumors being spread on the site. He's worried about site guidelines!
It's like being lectured on beauty products by Phyllis Diller!

Ignore him.
He's only here to stir shit and upset people.
I dont give him the satisfaction.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

We drafted the messiah last year and you're expecting too much from a second year player.

Murphy, Blackwell, Edwards, Waite and Whitnall are a beautiful set of numbers.

Hopfefully we can add Gibbs and Reid.

BV and Synners are not very measured, although BV likes to pretend he is. The rest are, and I appreciate what they have to say.

Endless ranting about rumours and whispers is not productive at all. You can't guarentee a thing.


It would seem that way Danny, and guys who can run a real board or business, not just a footy club one, would have real business strategies and real business techniques (not that the strategies can be applied). It's called trying to keep things in-house so that decisions can be made and completely articulated.

But the football media are gibbering idiots compared to their more professional counterparts, that's evident for all to see. They live off these rumours, and their contacts.

But now after two days of talks, not only did they get everything wrong, some of them had to sit outside MC Labour park for over 12 hours!

Anyway, that's only a theory of mine, but it's hardly more ridiculous than the board being completely rudderless on how to run a business.

To everything else - no, no joy either way. I do not take joy from slandering or smearing people's faces in my opinion. I ask a question and I hope for a decent answer. I mean, what have I asked that's so difficult of BV? Not a thing.

If he has some brilliant ideas on what to do, I would implore him to present them to the club, or to talk to people with influence to present them to the club. But he's just saying "it's all there, my thoughts are quite clear."

The 'anti-Denis'.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Anyone checked out www.carltonfc.com.au … I wonder if they know anything about the Pagan debacle? Surely a brief statement from Smorgo wouldn't be out the question?!

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Intrigued as to the AFL link here... talk that they intervened.

One last chance to burn Brown or just Fizgerald/Watts role coming to the fore?

Maybe they didn't consider it anywhere near as monumental as the papers? Just a thought.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

A brief statement from Smorgo is hardly monumental though is it.

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Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

True in theory, but maybe there's still more to come before the week is out.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Oh a REAL BOARD or BUSINESS...with REAL BUSINESS STRATEGIES and REAL BUSINESS TECHNIQUES...

You're very funny.

When you go into business jimmae you very quickly work out that 95% of those doing it are doing fairly poorly and that it's not rocket science working how to do it better.

Just because a football club has a board made up of people from the business world doesn't mean that those people are either a) good at what they do or b) suited to running a football club.

I know you're 21 jimmae but your posts look like they're coming from a 12 year old at the moment.

Like danny I have no idea what your agenda is but if you think this board is one big happy family with REAL BUSINESS STRATEGIES and that everything will be fine as a result then good luck to you.

I'd prefer to leave the fairies at the bottom of the garden where they belong.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Molesy said:


Molesy makes the vital point here. What happened with the AFL? It is hinted at through all of these pages and in the media. Synbad says that Fitzpatrick and Watts have been shocked by what they've seen. Caroline maintains pretty much the same thing. When you've got two opposing camps like that talking along similar lines then it starts to raise some pretty interesting questions.

Perhaps the AFL shutting down the whole Pagan issue (if it occurred) was to stop input from Fraser Brown. But is that the only reason?

And now the AFL knows how bad things are at the Board Level, is there anything they are going to do? Is there anything they can do?

My guess is that for a start it means the end of AFL handouts. They won't want to so obviously be seen to support a basketcase. Equally though, they won't want to see us go down in a heap of flames. Will be interesting to keep an eye on all of this.

I think they are inadequate, but not inept.

There's a difference.

How would you like me to explain business principles in layman terms? I believe the board just did what is called a managerial reshuffle, did they not?

Meanwhile, everyone arguing against my points are lining their posts with insults.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

It's because you're giving them the shits.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

If some of you could spend that energy articulating your own thoughts rather than continuing the merry-go-round, I would be quite pleased to listen/read.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I think in time it may well come out that the biggest influence in the saga was the AFL. And maybe not in an obvious way.

Jimmae,



Surely this is just rumour, inuendo and "whispers"!

From everything I've read of yours in the last few days I thought that you placed yourself above this.

regards

Ockham

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

P.O.W.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde