you reckon? Let the skipper of the Titanic sail again but we'll hang the boiler room attendant and the head waiter for hitting the iceberg. Smorgo can shuffle the deck chairs.

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

Synbad you said Fraser wont be allowed to run, Why?

Any idea about potentials on a rival ticket ?

Im quietly hoping , praying actually that there will be a ticket formed so really it doesn't matter what happens and what promises are made now.

The last few days have just been examples of the lowest common denominator ruling this club.

You know we can criticise JE for a lot of things but at least he had enough testosterone to be able to make a decision.[/quote]

The whole article seems to be made up of half truths and plenty of guess work on Caros part. All I want to know is why Pagan would be so desparate to avoid the sack? He would still get his money without the headache of the job - lets face it he is not getting any younger - so what is it that makes him want to continue????

Really puzzles me that does. Especially when he is going to lose his right (and left) hand men.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Having just read through about 40 pages of threads in here I don't really think there's much that I can add.

One thing that did catch my eye however was this from the Hun:



Unfortunately that's only part of the story.

What Silvagni actually said was:

"I also want to appoint my other three assistants. Get me Ronald McDonald for the forwards, Bozo for the back half and Krusty for the mids. If I'm going to do this I'm going to do it properly. I've got this great bow tie that spins around and I need people around me who are going to fit in with that and at least look like the rest of us."

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I get it - clowns in a circus,


now GWS can you ease my sanity and tell me why Pagan wants to stay?

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Yeah that bugs me too.

I think he is probably the only coach not to have been sacked. Maybe he wants to keep it that way??

Maybe he can see the upside in the next 2 years and wants to be part of it?

I dunno.

Maybe there's 1.2 million reasons why he wants to stay...

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************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

I don't understand your point GH, he would have got that money anyway!

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Because he's a stubborn old bastard and he doesn't like to admit that he's not up to it anymore?

If Denis leaves under these sort of circumstances I think it's pretty obvious it's retirement time. I think it's time for him to leave but I have little doubt we'll improve next year and the one after.

That's the problem.

After two years and a couple of steps up the ladder (maybe 10th-12th in 2008?) there'll be a push to sign him up again because we're "making progress".

I don't hate Denis and believed that he should be given a chance for most of the time he's been at the club considering the circumstances but I think he's proven this year that tactically he's slipped a long way behind and he's not creative enough to know how to change his methods.

Naturally Denis doesn't realise any of that and probably never will. He sees the natural development of the players (as well as some of his own doing) and sees that we're slowly improving.

Unfortunately I think he's well and truly capable of getting us into the 8 in 2-3 years but I doubt very much he's capable of taking it much further. Footy's far more planned and tactical than it was and he's not coping.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

If he gets the flick he gets the cash, but not if it's HIS decision to walk.

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************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

You make a good point actually, the club didn't sack him so he may never had had the option to take the money and run. Does this mean he could be staying purely for the money like you suggest?

Is it possible that we will have a coach who will just go through the motions for the cash?? What a shocking scenario! A coach who hates the club and his assistants that he didn't choose hanging in there for the dollars.

Bloody hell.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

You're now suggesting he's locked in a stalemate with the club to produce the outcome of him walking so that the club doesn't have to give him a single cent?

Ludicrous. You don't get away with this stuff in today's society! Showing your age there George.

If Pagan really was that stubborn, he would have torn the entire club to pieces AND gotten his money.

Mods, time to come to the party and start clamping down on insane rumours, I mean it's in the code of conduct is it not?

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Settle down Jim.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Jim don't be stupid, we are theorising not rumouring

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Today's society?

Showing your age there Jim...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Interesting article. I understood that without Collo Caroline W had no direct contact with the Board anymore - I dont think she is particularly close to anyone anymore so much of this could be the type of hearsay some of the reporters were spouting on the night.

Also, the title cannot be correct can it...if you consider the outcome. The assistants appear to be the ones to take the bullet, not Pagan. yes Pagan will have more conditions placed on his role but to me it is clear that that has to happen given Pagan's development methodologies and the clear need of the Carlton 'business' to plan / provide for a future.

Regardless of whether the reason to retain was purely financial, Pagan is still there.

There's numerous avenues one can take such a dispute, and several involve burning the ones twisting your arm to a crisp.

This is 80s stuff that's being run with here. Elliot is GONE, and the stuff he tried to do with companies saw him completely ruined by the ASIC.

Don't worry kk and WBY. I'm just putting the spotlight on some of the stuff that's being pedalled, I'm a lot more calm than what guys like BV and Synners would suggest.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I'm not worried about you Jim, as a matter of fact I ...



As that chinese bloke may not have said: look inward before commenting outward.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Maybe we still have at least one person off the field with a bit of pride left within?

I'm nervously in the "I hope this debacle makes Denis work bloody hard to become a better coach."

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