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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:33 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Will be interesting to see what Mikey Mike and the Gumpy Bunch have to say about it On The Couch tonight.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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mojo31 wrote:
Barry Mitchell has the full support of the senior players, the younger players. They all respect him and he demands discipline and gets it. But they all still play for him and know there roles.

He lets them play to there strengths but will switch them around when he can. He is not a "polished" media person like Wallet. He is a stright shooter. He is not a political animal.

He does not play mind games with players or not communicate with certain players. He does not play 1 group off against another.

He does not have favourites who play all the time in the midfield while a kid rots on the bench. He will accomodate everyone and give them all a fair go.

But at the end of the day they all know where they stand and what is expected of them. So they enjoy it but also show progression when a young player gets significant time under him.

Experienced players like Morrell and Harford and Franchina have a alot of respect for him and so they carry out his game plan and message to the youngsters on the field. They play a team game for him and are not there to show anyone else up.

The game on the weeknd was disappointing but Barry has done a great job with the Bullants.

He is an old school person but has adapted with the modern game to the changing tactics and changing approaches needed.

Other coaches have not grasped this concept. With how they develop players. How they tactically prepare for games and how they react in games. Kick ins, flooding, numbers back, rotations, man management, running style of game etc.

You have to be able to comminicate with all different types of people. Face to face and not let others do the bad cop routine. I believe Barry can do that. I do not belive Denis is the man for the senior coaching role anymore.

To me it starts with Elshaugh. He should be first to go. Libba I am less concerned about. But he has little say in anything at the club really. Its Denis and his right hand man playing there good cop/bad cop routines and mind games. While senior and young players alike grow increasingly disillusioned as to training, tactics, game style, same old routines and words and empty promises. The players dont believe it. Its stale and its 10 years ago. The game has changed but the senior coach is trapped in the 1990s.

Lack of imagination with the trading and where players are positioned and a complete and utter lack of faith in any kid who is not a Marc Murphy and a gun at 18. Anyome who has the slightest chink in there game who is not 23 will rot in the VFL or bench and be shuffled around and turned into a tagger/run with player/back pocket.

Its time for some change at the club.

JohnM and Mojo for the board.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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:)

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Last edited by bluedog on Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:53 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

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I'd take Mojos word over a lot of people on here-
he speaks a lot of sense..


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:30 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2493
Location: Princess Park
mojo31 wrote:
Barry Mitchell has the full support of the senior players, the younger players. They all respect him and he demands discipline and gets it. But they all still play for him and know there roles.

He lets them play to there strengths but will switch them around when he can. He is not a "polished" media person like Wallet. He is a stright shooter. He is not a political animal.

He does not play mind games with players or not communicate with certain players. He does not play 1 group off against another.

He does not have favourites who play all the time in the midfield while a kid rots on the bench. He will accomodate everyone and give them all a fair go.

But at the end of the day they all know where they stand and what is expected of them. So they enjoy it but also show progression when a young player gets significant time under him.

Experienced players like Morrell and Harford and Franchina have a alot of respect for him and so they carry out his game plan and message to the youngsters on the field. They play a team game for him and are not there to show anyone else up.

The game on the weeknd was disappointing but Barry has done a great job with the Bullants.

He is an old school person but has adapted with the modern game to the changing tactics and changing approaches needed.

Other coaches have not grasped this concept. With how they develop players. How they tactically prepare for games and how they react in games. Kick ins, flooding, numbers back, rotations, man management, running style of game etc.

You have to be able to comminicate with all different types of people. Face to face and not let others do the bad cop routine. I believe Barry can do that. I do not belive Denis is the man for the senior coaching role anymore.

To me it starts with Elshaugh. He should be first to go. Libba I am less concerned about. But he has little say in anything at the club really. Its Denis and his right hand man playing there good cop/bad cop routines and mind games. While senior and young players alike grow increasingly disillusioned as to training, tactics, game style, same old routines and words and empty promises. The players dont believe it. Its stale and its 10 years ago. The game has changed but the senior coach is trapped in the 1990s.

Lack of imagination with the trading and where players are positioned and a complete and utter lack of faith in any kid who is not a Marc Murphy and a gun at 18. Anyome who has the slightest chink in there game who is not 23 will rot in the VFL or bench and be shuffled around and turned into a tagger/run with player/back pocket.

Its time for some change at the club.


Great post MOJO. My only concern about Mitchell is that he may be able to communicate to the players but is he polished enough to attract sponsors and inspire our brand to the corporate world. Some will say who cares as long as he can put wins on the board however we need someone that can promote our club and get us back where we belong.

To me Mitchell is very much like Laidley - too rough around the edges and for what it's worth I base my comments on attending at least 12 Bullants games this year.

As others have stated I hope that we search far and wide as I don't want to be in this situation again in two years. We have made enough stuff ups lately we need to get this 100% right.

By the way what is Voss doing next year? How long was Roos out of the game before he took over.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm
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Location: Melbourne
been an interesting day and think will get more so during the week.

I still advocate for change and Mojo made some excellent points more to do with some of the problems of the team of trout and Dennis playing good cop / Bad cop ... playing favorites and having the same old players warming benches.

I think all we need to do is look at Melbourne / Port / Brisbane - forced to with injuries just how there what we considered mid pick players have been given chances and really excelled.. Even Richmond has given faith to the not so considered star kids. Why i bring this up .. if any club should be giving kids a better run it is us especially with where the team has been travelling. These kids gain with more games and game time and been given the oppertunity when given a task instead they look nervous and worry about making a mistake as they know they will be warming the pine for the remainder of the game.

Yes Dennis has had some successes IE Simmo / Fev .. Santanta but i think that has come more from Santanta busting a gut than faith from Dennis.

Anyway a couple of issues that have prob changed me from backing DP to now believing we need change.

He had the oppertunity last season to review the Coaching panel and bring is proper change to change the mix ... instead he pleaded to keep his panel with no change. My issue is that there was no accountability of change and if he wanted to keep things unchanged you would expect some improvent instead we are even less competative than the previous season in regards to games won. though i believe the List is showing some promise not sure i would attribute that to Dennis. We should be further advanced but though players have shown more the team has not really change in how it plays to the .. umm err plan ... this is more a reflection of the coach not the players.

If we are going to endure this pain as we have been then developing the kids should be number 1 priority and not just the gun who you can take credit instantly for because he was a natural gun like Murph. The coach needs to really get the new kids and 2-3 Year players up and running and in this area i dont think we have succeeded and more so i dont believe that Dennis on 600-700K is the ideal person. If we are going to go through this rebuild i rather have someone who can grow with the group...comunicates directly with the kids and works more closely because if he stays around then he will grow with the new team.. the future.
if we are in this position i would rather the club with current finaces in mind go down the track of a more youthful coaching panel with better ability to change his game and have a more focused coaching assistant panel with a strong push to developement and (SKILLS)

I just dont think Dennis is the right person now at this point of time.

Other factors we dont know are the power brokers behind the scenes. if there are people not wanting to assist the club because of the current panel... whether there have been rumblings from sponsers ... key players ...all these are factors and i hope come out in the review

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:56 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Robert Walls certainly seemed to think there's not much in it. Questioned which people at Carlton Sheehan has been speaking too. He said none of the people he talks to have said anything about Pagan being sacked. Thinks it would be a mistake and set us back another 2 years. Sheehan said that 24 hours ago Pagan was 'gone' but the publicity today would be helping him.

Would Pagan be relieved enough to keep his job that he'd compromise on the assistants and agree to replace them?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue4ever wrote:
mojo31 wrote:
Barry Mitchell has the full support of the senior players, the younger players. They all respect him and he demands discipline and gets it. But they all still play for him and know there roles.

He lets them play to there strengths but will switch them around when he can. He is not a "polished" media person like Wallet. He is a stright shooter. He is not a political animal.

He does not play mind games with players or not communicate with certain players. He does not play 1 group off against another.

He does not have favourites who play all the time in the midfield while a kid rots on the bench. He will accomodate everyone and give them all a fair go.

But at the end of the day they all know where they stand and what is expected of them. So they enjoy it but also show progression when a young player gets significant time under him.

Experienced players like Morrell and Harford and Franchina have a alot of respect for him and so they carry out his game plan and message to the youngsters on the field. They play a team game for him and are not there to show anyone else up.

The game on the weeknd was disappointing but Barry has done a great job with the Bullants.

He is an old school person but has adapted with the modern game to the changing tactics and changing approaches needed.

Other coaches have not grasped this concept. With how they develop players. How they tactically prepare for games and how they react in games. Kick ins, flooding, numbers back, rotations, man management, running style of game etc.

You have to be able to comminicate with all different types of people. Face to face and not let others do the bad cop routine. I believe Barry can do that. I do not belive Denis is the man for the senior coaching role anymore.

To me it starts with Elshaugh. He should be first to go. Libba I am less concerned about. But he has little say in anything at the club really. Its Denis and his right hand man playing there good cop/bad cop routines and mind games. While senior and young players alike grow increasingly disillusioned as to training, tactics, game style, same old routines and words and empty promises. The players dont believe it. Its stale and its 10 years ago. The game has changed but the senior coach is trapped in the 1990s.

Lack of imagination with the trading and where players are positioned and a complete and utter lack of faith in any kid who is not a Marc Murphy and a gun at 18. Anyome who has the slightest chink in there game who is not 23 will rot in the VFL or bench and be shuffled around and turned into a tagger/run with player/back pocket.

Its time for some change at the club.


Great post MOJO. My only concern about Mitchell is that he may be able to communicate to the players but is he polished enough to attract sponsors and inspire our brand to the corporate world. Some will say who cares as long as he can put wins on the board however we need someone that can promote our club and get us back where we belong.

To me Mitchell is very much like Laidley - too rough around the edges and for what it's worth I base my comments on attending at least 12 Bullants games this year.

As others have stated I hope that we search far and wide as I don't want to be in this situation again in two years. We have made enough stuff ups lately we need to get this 100% right.

By the way what is Voss doing next year? How long was Roos out of the game before he took over.



Why is it up to Mitchell to bring in the sponsors???

Mitchell should only be responsible for developing a list that can have success.

If that list becomes succesful the sponsors will jump on board.

In the meantime the board must sell sell sell.. to supporters to convert them into members and to sponsors and potential sponsors.

thats all id want from Mitchell.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Robert Walls certainly seemed to think there's not much in it. Questioned which people at Carlton Sheehan has been speaking too. He said none of the people he talks to have said anything about Pagan being sacked. Thinks it would be a mistake and set us back another 2 years. Sheehan said that 24 hours ago Pagan was 'gone' but the publicity today would be helping him.

Would Pagan be relieved enough to keep his job that he'd compromise on the assistants and agree to replace them?


I don't mind Sheahan, but i think he's been drinking his bath water here.

On The Couch confirmed it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Maybe, but the shit's really going to hit the fan at the board meeting tomorrow. It's going to be a very close call. He's a very big chance to go. Money has been promised to pay him out.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:32 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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kennyhunter wrote:
Maybe, but the shit's really going to hit the fan at the board meeting tomorrow. It's going to be a very close call. He's a very big chance to go. Money has been promised to pay him out.


WOOOMP! There it is!


If there is money available he is GONE!!

kennyhunter is the man, if he says theres money, well theres money. My sources were very clear that it was a funding issue, that being solved, Denis is GAWWN!

Mark my words.

Mind you I get no joy from this, DP was up against it from about day 20.. and in many cases has been unfairly criticised.

But, the time is right...


Barry Mitchell will be our coach come 2 weeks time.

Great scoop kenny!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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It was funny hearing Walls say Carlton did the wrong thing re-appointing Pagan yet praising Kernahan :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:40 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:12 am
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kennyhunter wrote:
Maybe, but the shit's really going to hit the fan at the board meeting tomorrow. It's going to be a very close call. He's a very big chance to go. Money has been promised to pay him out.


Wow! Thanks for that Kenny.

Tomorrow night will prove to be very interesting indeed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:42 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Whatever happens I hope it's quick. We don't need this shit hanging over our heads all summer.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Deano Supremo wrote:
Whatever happens I hope it's quick. We don't need this shit hanging over our heads all summer.


Pagan will be gone by lunch time tommorow, i expect they will take a little time to "search" for his replacement.


Expect a few lost souls to wonder home....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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so Denis seems to be gone.

Oh well, thats football.

I feel for him. Impossible job to get anywhere unless we stayed at the bottom for a prolonged time.

Even tonight Wallsey was saying 3 more years to develop the kids and then finals.

In fact I think anyone with coaching ambitions is a fool to take us on now. With all the penalties our patience was gone after 3 years - this year he was gone unless he lifted us up. Perhaps more than anything else if Denis goes it shows there is no such thing as tanking unless the coach is a political moron.

How long will his successor get? 2 years? Surely 3 but if we end on the bottom next year (which wouldn't be a bad thing) and then falter again the year after?

And again I ask will the demise of Denis give this board an extended tenure? Will we replace the coach but the real den of nothingness continue to make no changes, have no impact and threaten, more than anything (except JE), the end of this club, be allowed to go on?


I think Denis is a scapegoat guilty of plenty but he was a coach in an extreme situation and perhaps he was always doomed to die by the very sword that won him the position.

I hope this is the start of movement for the club. I hope we pick 3 or so great kids and really begin to shape ourselves back into a legitimate football club again.

I hated that coach's luncheon, made me feel like a Fitzroy supporter. I hope this change (if it comes) triggers greater change. If not then Denis's going will have @#$%&! all effect on the fortunes of this club.

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Last edited by dannyboy on Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Electric Blue wrote:
Deano Supremo wrote:
Whatever happens I hope it's quick. We don't need this shit hanging over our heads all summer.


Pagan will be gone by lunch time tommorow, i expect they will take a little time to "search" for his replacement.


Expect a few lost souls to wonder home....


Pfft thats what Costello said about John Howard a few weeks back :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:54 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Will we be happy if they sack him and spend a month "interviewing" only to appoint Mitchell?

Should we see this as sacking an unsuccessful coach or a bloodless coup?

Who are the "senior coaches in waiting"?

Mitchell? Longmire? Harvey (gah)? SOS? Ayres? Lyon? Brereton?
Who are the assistants who are ready to go?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:55 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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dannyboy wrote:
In fact I think anyone with coaching ambitions is a fool to take us on now.


I agree, this list will burn one more coach.


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