All we need now is for Smorgo to come out and say Pagan has his support.

May as well bring out the cheque book if that happens.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

The phrase "he has the full support of the board" is a deathknell

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T E A M

I reckon Malouf's response to the question today is just as bad

'We're still conducting our review'

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

If the board decide that $1.2 mil payout is worth it for the benefits sacking Pagan will bring, why do we need to sign a bargain coach?

Is Mitchell at $250k better value than Longmire or Mckenna at $400k. I don't know the answer but it would be a half-assed review that doesnt ask the question.

I remember going to a function in mid 2003 ?Rattens testimonial I think and Brittain came to speak.
Barry Mitchell was there and he spent the whole night talking with Brittain. I thought that was piss poor. Doesnt matter who you supported, Carlton installed Pagan as senior coach and Mitchell was his assitant. His behaviour and body language was of support for Brittain. Remembering that, I cant help but think that his support for pagan hasnt been total and i hope he hasnt been "convincing" the players that Pagan isnt right

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T E A M

Perhaps he could actually use the runner during a game to actually do some live coaching? For example, if Waite overcommits in a tackle, send the runner since he does it constantly. Then if he does it again, send the runner again. If he does it the 3rd time, drag him.

Have you ever seen the runner speak to Waite after an overcommit? No better way to get the message across than direclty after the incident.

This is one example of something I want to see during a game ... evidence that they are actually being coached.

The AFL has officially cleared the path in terms of our loan for a change in coach:

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&s ... eid=295195

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

It's not actually going to cost us $1.2m to dump Pagan. Here's how it works out:

STICK WITH PAGAN OVER NEXT TWO YEARS:

As senior coach Pagan gets $600,000 x 2 years = $1.2million
Mitchell as bullants coach gets (say) $150,000 x 2 years = $300,000

Total cost to CFC of Status Quo = $1.5million


DUMP PAGAN

Pagan gets payout of $1.2million
Mitchell as senior coach gets $250,000 x 2 years = $500,000
Pay Mitchell's replacement at bullants $150,000 x 2 years = $300,000

Total cost to CFC = $2million

So it'll cost us half a million dollars to dump Pagan, not $1.2million.

(note: I'm basing these figures on the conjecture in Sheahan's article that Mitchell would do the job for 250k in the first two years)

I vote JohnM onto the board

I too was wondering why no one put it in that perspective ,we have to pay pagan regardless so why not get in a cheap replacement

cost us bugger all really

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

So who is going to breakdown the game plans of both Mitchell and Pagan and tell me what the difference is between the two and why Mitchell would be a more suitable candidate? but also more importantly get better results on the field in 2007?

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

If we do axe Pagan, I would hate to see a grant thomas like, in house appointment ie. Mitchell without a full review. Mckenna and Longmire have big wraps and with probably only 1-2 coaching jobs to open we could get the first pick of coaching talent.

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Too Legit to quit.

It should also be noted that the club lost about a mil in membership from 05' to 06', the club will have to determine if we will recoup any of that with a change of coach

Same old story, these guys know how the media works, and they know that if they came out and said "Denis is doing a great job, everyone down at the club loves him and the media should get off his back" then it would go a long way to arresting public perception, but they don't. Same with Lance a couple of months ago, "Denis is very set in his ways". It's not saying anything controversial, but it comes across as he has ideas that the playing group don't agree with.

There is a stream of thought here that if Mitchell is appointed without assessing other candidates, that it is an incorrect process. That's not necessarily the case, as the club has full knowledge of how Mitchell operates, and would also have a fair idea how successful coaches operate, particularly the younger ones.

Promotion from within is often cited as a healthy feature of organisations, just as much as recruiting from outside is seen as the way to go.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

succession planning !

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Either way its Pagan going or Kernahan and Mitchell.....the latter twos position would be untenable given the recent events if Pagan survives.
Coutts and Malouf spin didnt support Pagan just the review process...If I was a betting man Denis can start clearing his office....I will be very surprised if he survives....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Barry Mitchell has the full support of the senior players, the younger players. They all respect him and he demands discipline and gets it. But they all still play for him and know there roles.

He lets them play to there strengths but will switch them around when he can. He is not a "polished" media person like Wallet. He is a stright shooter. He is not a political animal.

He does not play mind games with players or not communicate with certain players. He does not play 1 group off against another.

He does not have favourites who play all the time in the midfield while a kid rots on the bench. He will accomodate everyone and give them all a fair go.

But at the end of the day they all know where they stand and what is expected of them. So they enjoy it but also show progression when a young player gets significant time under him.

Experienced players like Morrell and Harford and Franchina have a alot of respect for him and so they carry out his game plan and message to the youngsters on the field. They play a team game for him and are not there to show anyone else up.

The game on the weeknd was disappointing but Barry has done a great job with the Bullants.

He is an old school person but has adapted with the modern game to the changing tactics and changing approaches needed.

Other coaches have not grasped this concept. With how they develop players. How they tactically prepare for games and how they react in games. Kick ins, flooding, numbers back, rotations, man management, running style of game etc.

You have to be able to comminicate with all different types of people. Face to face and not let others do the bad cop routine. I believe Barry can do that. I do not belive Denis is the man for the senior coaching role anymore.

To me it starts with Elshaugh. He should be first to go. Libba I am less concerned about. But he has little say in anything at the club really. Its Denis and his right hand man playing there good cop/bad cop routines and mind games. While senior and young players alike grow increasingly disillusioned as to training, tactics, game style, same old routines and words and empty promises. The players dont believe it. Its stale and its 10 years ago. The game has changed but the senior coach is trapped in the 1990s.

Lack of imagination with the trading and where players are positioned and a complete and utter lack of faith in any kid who is not a Marc Murphy and a gun at 18. Anyome who has the slightest chink in there game who is not 23 will rot in the VFL or bench and be shuffled around and turned into a tagger/run with player/back pocket.

Its time for some change at the club.

Can anyone clarify if Pagan is on an estimated $600k plus the $200k marketing contract? or is he on $400k + $200k marketing? Big difference in the payout figure if the base is only $400k and their is no marketing contract signed.

PS: Thanks for the reply Mojo. You have a lot to offer on this forum.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Can people be sure they have not been talking to others, e.g. did the meeting with Mark Harvey "rumoured" not take place?
These big "David Parkin"reviews can land you guys like Clarko and Laidley -they are not the perfect solution in all cases.
For mine even the choice of reviewers shows the obvious lack of experience and understanding of future actions by the President and his board

Hopefully they make their decision soon, as we need stability come trade and draft time.

You would think they would of had enough time to know what they want to do by now.

I really doubt they would have the guts to do anything.

Pagan will be the death of this club I reckon. His pigheadedness is losing members, and making us into a laughing stock.

He has had more than enough time to start making inroads into making us a more competitive side.

I firmly believe we have a good nucleous of young players to build a team around, and Pagan does not play these players according to their strengths. He is wrecking the young players confidence by taking them off after an error. Yet our experienced players such as Lappin and even Scotland on the weekend kept kicking the ball to the opposition. Dont get me wrong I love Scotland and Lappin but they did it time and time again on Sunday.

He should of used the remainder of the year to experiment with the team but no he did not. Fisher should be in the backline as he cannot kick for goal, Waite should also be tried in a different position. Walker, Betts, Simmo rotated through the middle. Blackwell in the guts all game, see what he did in the last quarter. Bloody composed and smart is that kid.

Deluca is hopeless and is not up to AFL, the times he turns the ball over with his shocking on field kicking. He stays on. Sporn has had enough chances, piss him off. McGrath tries hard and all that but is sloppy.

Enough said, Pagan has got to go. We need someone with fresh ideas, and more importantly someone personable and media friendly. Someone to spread enthusiasm about Carlton and our future. Pagan is all about doom and gloom and just says the same things over and over again. How many times can we listen to it.

You know what after the game on Sunday even though I was happy to lose, I was so upset with how we played that game. I cried when I saw Carazzo smile at the end of the game. Some of these players dont hurt enough and this is a problem. Where is our passion. ?

I can't disagree with any of that. All I want is that the next person that is appointed is the best available person for the job. The only way to assess that is to go to the market place and remove Sticks from the process.