Exactly.

But to say that the Dogs were a team of 'rejects' that somehow magically transformed into competent footballers is revisionist at best.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

They still had their fair share of rejects!

Well, i shouldn't say rejects because they are still athletes in the elite game. I'll say B grade players instead.

Look, i don't want to sound like a broken record here, but i am just getting really tired of this crap week in week out. This club is the 'Joker' of the AFL. It's embarresing. I'm sick of my club being the club that has to wear all the laughs.
WE SHOULD HAVE KILLED Essendon* YESTERDAY! It's a disgrace that we didn't! Forget the scoreboard, we were beaten all day!

It just makes me angry that The players cop all the criticism, the board cops it's fair share too, the AFL & their draft penalties aswell............................................But the man who (I believe) should be taken a large chunk of the blame is protected.

Aggghhhhh! So Frustrating!

You know that comment he made about 'Dancing with your sister?' He said that last year after we drew with Port too! Why am i bringing that up???????? Because he is living in the past. He brings nothing new, nothing changes, nothing develops, We are going nowhere! And it's painfull!
Your one-liners never change Denis.......MUCH LIKE OUR POSITION ON THE LADDER!!!!!!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Sorry guys! I appologize!

I try to keep my Anti-Denis comments to myself because i know he has alot of supporters here. It's just sometimes i get frustrated and let it all out!

I'm gonna go have a beer and calm down!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Like who?

You need to lay off the caffeine.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I'll be interested which way the Bulldogs go with their drafting....Johnson/Smith/Grant dont have long to go and Eade will want a result within the next two years I reckon...do they continue to draft kids or go the trade route for a Key Position forward or defender....I fancy they will take Podsiadly from Werribee in attempt to get a cheap established goalkicker and may look to trade for another KPP ......

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Yeah it's gunna be interesting.

Smith has slowed right down - he'd be lucky to have another year in him I reckon.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Read it again....................i just said i shouldn't call them rejects, instead i'm calling them B grade players.

You can't really say they were a side full of superstars and A-List champions can you!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

They're looking pretty good now.

You make it sound as if Denis has the 95 premiership side at his disposal, while everyone else has the Manangatang under 12's.

Take some deep breaths.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

MATE! You've just summed up exactly what i'm trying to say!

The Bulldogs have the same list (add in 2 or 3 developing kids who are exactly that, STILL DEVELOPING) and all of a sudden .

Funny that!

And no, i've never suggested or stated that Pagan had a team of Champions to work with. He had pretty much exactly the same 'Potential' to work with as Eade or even Wallace did.

That's all!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Now you're just taking the piss!

Our list has been shot to shit since 2002 (for various reasons) and it's only just starting to get to a respectable stage now.

To suggest that we've had comparable talent to the Dogs or Tigers in the past four years is laughable.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Yeah. Your right! What was i thinking Denis is CLEARLY the right man for the job.

Jezz, i'm glad we got him for another 2 years!

On that note.....................i'm off to bed! Goodnight Deano!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Honest appraisal of the game.

We should have belted Essendon* by 5 goals but appalling turnovers directly led to half a dozen Essendon* goals. Terrible kicking for goal and the inability to punish the other side when we are on top.

Our younger players (apart from Walker's kicking) aren't the "Ball Butchers" it's the players like McGrath, Carrazzo, French and Houlihan who we know have deficincies that are costing us games.

Our approach is enthusiastic and I believe they're trying but we still have players in our side that wouldn't get a game at other AFL sides.

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If you'd given me the choice of going out and beating four men and smashing a goal in from thirty yards against Liverpool
or going to bed with Miss World, it would have been a difficult choice. Luckily, I had both. - George Best

Were did I say anything about Denis?

I'm just giving an honest appraisal of our situation as compared to the Dogs situation.

Your hate of Denis is clouding your judgement.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

this is where i disagree

they are far from bottoming out IMO

llyod, hird, fletcher, johnsons, soloman - will not be there within a few years.

if they dont do something about their list now they are in real trouble and for a long time.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

An honest assessment is that we should have won by 5 goals.

That we didn't is purely because we turned over the ball and missed a few sitters in front.

Not sure if rushing Waite back was wise but it beats playing Sporn.

I was actually amused watching the game seeing Kennedy warm the bench as long as he did.

Its interesting when we beat the Bombers earlier in the season the response was - who did we actually beat? A team that is spoon material.

Flash forward to round 16 and why didn't we thump them?

We are damned if we win and damned if we draw with them.

My assessment, apart from the humour was that Carlos played well, Simmo was electric but needs to finish better in front of goals, Eddie was poised, Walker actually kicked a goal, Bryan was handy, Kouta seemed refreshed and I have to wonder if we may have erred by not resting him more throughout the year to keep him fresh.

Bannister's goal on the run reminded of his 2004 year and maybe, just maybe he is getting his confidence back.

ANYONE who says that Fev should be traded, is an idiot - 5 goals with one hand, was an exceptional performance.

T-Bird was brilliant and obviously loves the G.

Scotland was great as was Stevens. B1 and B2 were also very good.

Over the past few years I have learnt patience when it comes to the Blues. I was happy with the kids and they will only get better in 2007.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Agree.

I'd still rather go after as many wins as we can this year
(Oh-Boy, am i gonna get shot down for that one!)

Sorry....................forget what i just said!

Carry on..................................................

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Don't you want an extra 2nd rnd pick?

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There's so much I could say...

I often wonder why it is that I don't like reading some of the football related stuff on this site... then I read some of the "brown colour glasses" crap as seen here, and I remember why.

Halfway through the year all the BCGB (Brown colour glasses brigade) were all about how shit Pagan is because of the flood and not playing the kids.

Now we're playing the kids and we're not flooding. We're trying to play an attacking style of game that we've clearly not yet got the skilled or developed personnel to do. Other sides know this, so the common plan against us is to sit back and wait for us to make mistakes and hurt us on the rebound. Not a plan that's going to win you a premiership, but it's a plan that's going to beat a team of developing kids.

So why would another ordinary team like Essendon* be able to get away with this plan?

Because of the very fact that they are bottoming out with older players, and we are developing the kids. A midfield with the experience of the Johnsons and Peverill isn't going to get you far in the next few years, but it's still going to be good enough against a team that's developing... and a team that's only recently changed it's game plan from defence to attack.

So realistically, yes, our skills are bad, and because of that teams just sit back and wait. Going forward though, we are playing the kind of footy (in terms of the plan) that will get us to where we want to be soon, and with another pre-season in the kids, plus another couple of quality kids into the side next year, we're not as far away as the BCGB would have us believe.

A realistic take on the way we are does not need to simply mean "we are shit".

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

We should have beat them comfortably without Lloyd, Hird, Fletcher, McPhee, Laycock and Johns.

Playing Lappin or elevating Jackson instead of playing a clearly underdone Waite would have made sense.

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There is no footy god