Sorry MM I saw ingenious and thought you were referring to genius.

Expecting innovation is abit hard when you've got no play money! You cant just innovate. you cant just say 'Yes today Im going to have an idea... put in in my schedule between 9 and 10'! We have to do the basics and we're barely able to afford those.

The Saints re-evaluated their contract, as they should, and youd make sounds you werent happy with it to up the cash payment wouldnt you? I would! The solution is to keep tht commitment short-term. How about a 1-off? How about over 2 years - in 2008 we should be coming back, shouldn't we? Until then lets get some play money so we can pay for more marketing staff?

And simonverbeek your call for all home games to be in Melbourne forever is akin to 'We wont win a wooden spoon ever'. Sounds nice, and we'd like it to be so, but when you're a pauper what are you supposed to do?

If it was a MCG game that is sold - we are well and truly under the control of the AFL. I also think that it will be a MCG game if we do it.

That's the bit that worries me Molsey, I don't trust this board to enter a contract like this and use it for the short term only.

I am questioning whether they will have the nous to capitalise on things when we are coming back. I am worried they will not have the forsight to use the onfield success (when we are back up and running) and set us up for the long term.

There is some manouevering in the background by some influential Carlton people - it's a case of whether certain cards fall into place AND timing, if the cards fall their way.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

The question is how much of a difference will 400k really make? (given that we are short 1.5mill this season). I hate to say it but I'm expecting another drop in membership next season - there just isnt anything at the club (ie CLEAR direction/positivity) to entice members to join or re-sign.

Lets say we sold 2 games next season and made 1mill $ from it. We would still be 500k short of where we need to be - and that doesnt even take into account the inevitable backlash from supporters (as evidenced already on these boards) and the decline in memberships due to the lack of direction from the club/poor onfield performances. We could easily end up having sold 2 homes games and still be 1.5mill short of budget next season.

If we are going to prostitute ourselves I'd much rather do it properly and sell ALLL our home games next season. We would make up any shortfall in budget and be able to retire around 1/2 of our debt in the process. Then we would revert back to normal on 2008 (no home games being sold) when most people expect us to start showing real improvement on field.

In terms of games sold interestate we could negotiate with the AFL (and through them the TV networks) to ensure that as many games are televised live and free to air as possible so that supporters are still able to watch games.

2 games to perth
2 games to adelaide
1 game to brisbane
1 game to sydney
2 games to canberra
1 game to darwin
2 games to tasmania

We could also reduce one of those interstate matches by selling a game to skilled stadium.

Frankly the whole thing is quite distasteful and I'd not sell any home games if we could - but if its necessary I'd rather go the whole kit and kaboodle and be done with it. No more of this slow bleed shit that the board is putting supporters through.

We have sold out our spiritual home (had to go - fair enough but the deal was shit and now we will lose the lease AND the right to control what happens there), we've sold out our players (labelling them z-graders, constant bemoaning lack of players/talent) and now we will sell out our supporters. What is next? At the rate this board is going, it wouldnt surprise me if we sold our jumper (new design = merchandising revenue, perhaps they should use a different font and different shade of blue every year - anyone for symbol and aqua blue?)

I believe Cook negotiated sponsorship monies in advance up to three years, he went to the banks who were the main creditors with that money and renegotiated better repayment plans....that was the crux of how he fixed the problems.....that advanced sponsorship money also paid of all the small creditors.
Obviously the council and State Govt helped with the ground....although the AFL nearly stuffed things by insisting on Toyota signage at the expense of Ford who are the Geelong lifeline in terms of sponsorship....credit to Costa and Cook though for not caving in and reaching a comprimise....we would have just bent over...
Selling games is short term thinking....we need a real financial plan and someone like Cook to execute it....

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Yes KKerna,

gee a lot of emotion being thrown around but not a lot of logic....
FAQ

1) If we sell a game "home" to Perth (say WCE) do we then play 3 games in Perth ....Not likely...we already play two.. ..so maybe some other freeloaders will have to take up some slack...(Thanks Collingwood!)

3) Does my membership now only get me to 10 games in Melbourne (and 1 in Perth if I travel)...No. unless the club are asleep at the wheel, they will have an "away" game in Melbourne that you will be entitled for entry, probably Bulldogs , KAngas (traditionally low drawing crowds)

3) Do we lose our home ground advantage?!...Well ...yes...but if you can tell me what that is these days I 'm happy to discuss what effect it may have.

4) So what difference does it make?...well we wouldn't all be sitting around arguing about it on an internet forum if it wasn't an option...other thah that..makes no difference

********************

Please realise that the draw is incredibly uneven and decided by the AFL. playing a "home" game interstate is NO DIFFERENT to playing an "AWAY" gme at the Dome....at the end of the day, it's the total amount of games you play, "here or there" that matters (and how many your membership includes etc.....
If we get $400k to go to Subi to play...and encourage our WA members (God bless them)...then so be it! We get $0 to go there now! and the WA members have no mebers rights....I like the idea (as I said above) ...as it will force the hand of the AFL to fixture "other" teams into interstate games

Oh and just by way of comparison....
Melbourne sold 2 games right?!?

They play 11 games at their home ground (the 'G - 8 home and 3 away)
We play 10 games at ours (8 home 2 away)

They play 4 at "the other Melb venue - TD) 1 home , 3 away
We play 7 (at the G -3 home, 4 away)

They play one game at the Gabba (home - sold for $$)
We play one game at the Gabba (away - we get stragalia)

They Play two games at Subi - Away)
We play two games at Subi - away)

The only controversy is the sellinbg of thier SECOND game to Carrara - which is viewed as an advantage to Brissy....

So why isn't the fact they play an extra game at home and "more games at the G" an advantage....
It's basically all a mix which makes absolutely no diffrenec unless the fixture becomes balanced..
If someone gives you $$ for this sort of crap...just take it ...
Get over it

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

Molsey I understand what you're saying about our options being limited because we're 'paupers', but if we keep getting pushed around we'll remain paupers. We need to take some initiative and put our feet down for once.

We have to stop accepting the unnacceptable. For example:

We have to lose games cos we're paupers and it's the only way
We have to sell our home games from PP even without a deal to counter the high costs of running an unoperational venue
We have to have a clash strip cos we're paupers
We can;t invest in better a coaching appartus (eg Craig's helmets) cos we're paupers
We have to suck Demetrispew cos we're paupers.
We have to sell a home game cos we're paupers

ENOUGH

Poor people don;t get rich by pigeonholing themselves as paupers and doing the predicatble things to survive.

Selling home games is a cash-fix - it's not a positive move for a football club's brand and for your 'core' supporters.

It's a quick hit of heroin to make you feel better and then you're left with nothing more.

It's doing what everyone wants us to do and play pauper.

I'd rather give up the 400k and see if we can hang on until we start winning games. Then the funds will role in.

We need to be strong. We aren't an easy sell.

ALL CARLTON HOME GAMES IN MELBOURNE FOREVER

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

It is without question a short term fix and I am surprised the club hasn't organised members to pitch in to buy weekly Tattslotto tickets to see us out of the financial mess.

Winning games and recruiting well are the only ways we are going to go forward as a club.

Coupled with conservative, rather than ridiculous contracts.

Not to mention a board that is made of people who know WTF they are doing in terms of running the business of the CFC.

To this day I find it extraordinary that Sticks sits in the box on match day and wears the hat of Chairman of Selectors and Vice President.

What other club would allow the VP to sit in the coaches box?

The club is unprofessional and is run like a zoo. We are forever being reactive - "sell a home game cos' the Dees won a game in Brissy and bagged $400K to boot".

What is the business plan of the CFC and where is the transparency that was promised many moons ago?

How pathetic are we that we will allow this to happen [moving of games interstate] as the one of the founding clubs of the competition.

We are not like the other clubs and the minute we accept that we are, we are doomed.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Can we hang on until we start winning games, sv? When will we start winning games? I thought we'd start to win some this year, and who can tell what would have happened if we had have beaten Richmond earlier this year?

In my forward looking view, Carlton hits 2007 with 3 top 20 draftpicks which is great, maybe 1 more, but:

- Kouta and French retire
- one of Whitnall and Houlihan is traded for a relatively early pick
- 8 players are delisted, mostly of our VFL playing stock now

Unless our youngsters really hit their strides, we will have a similar year in 2007.

For all intents & purposes, Carlton's list will again be better. More youthful, more future.... but financially we are screwed. We need to take the heroin hit in 2007 to do something. We cant just site here & wait for the good times to roll in. They may take a long time.

Crap.

Surely they'll sell one of the 2 matches at Subi, so either way you don't miss out seeing any matches in Melbourne.

Perth is a f*cked idea.

Adelaide is an even more f*cked idea.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Does the club need to pay the Bulldogs or Kangas for every member who enters on that away game though, to compensate them for lost gate receipts?

i.e 10,000 members at $20 = $200,000

I thought that was the arrangement for our game against Hawthorn and St Kilda which were those clubs designated 'away' game.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Keeping up with my crusade to bag Pagan at every opportunity . I blame the selling of these home games on him .

Think about this

3 x $800,000 = $2,400,000
3 x $650,000 = $1,950.000

Total = $4,350.000 over six years

Wayne Brittain or other less notable coach 6 x $300,000 = $1,800.000

Total difference $2,550.000 = 6 games sold interstate

think of that next time you hand over your $80/ month to Fox because 7and10 wont telecast us free to air because we basically suck


All roads lead to Rome
All problems point to Pagan

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

At the moment we have no other option than to sell matches interstate and use the additional revenue to stay afloat and help pay off our debt.

In a few years time when we are successful again (hopefully) and our costs our lower (reduced maintenance costs due to the redevelopment of MC Labour) we should be a profitable club again.

There is still a long road ahead for us however.

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There is no footy god

This is the sort of thinking that allowed the club to get into the position it is in now.

As a club we were very successful for many decades by working hard and not being arrogant about our success.

This changed with the introduction of the 'Elliot' mindset.

We are not born to rule. You have to work hard and be smarter than others to succeed, not get it handed on a platter.

We have to embrace humility.

The more people there are around the club who think we will get out of this simply because they think we are better than everyone else the longer it will take us to get out of this mess.

So we should swallow our misguided pride and sell a couple of games for a couple of years, its one small piece of the puzzle that we need to get back to what we once were.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

TBB...To the highest (or lowest) bidder....clubs would give a testicle to have the Blues designate a game as an "Memeber - away" game and won't be charging Carlton $20 a head...it will be anything to get more through the door and bums on seats ...That's why you arrange that differently each year....The contracts are complicated..ground, catering, numbers etc. Some teams will know they will do a loss on certain games, so they will try and get anything extra for those.
actually Hawks won't be goiving any testicles away as Mitchell has just lost his

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

So the Bulldogs will be happy to admit 10,000 of our members who would otherwise have had to pay to get in?

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Jarusa my positon is that we are not better than everyone and therefore sheer arrogance will see us thru this.

I think once we get the money from the selling of home games that we still don't have the necessary people in position to take us to the next level.

Because we lack visionaries and dynamic people at board level, not to mention a football department lacking in being able to make the hard decisions, we will continue to sell games as this is easy money for any club.

I don't have an issue with selling the games rather what is the next step in our plan to get back to being a strong and viable club in the competition?

Are we hoping that things will sort themselves out or are we going to actively make the necessary changes and decisions needed?

I've been humble for 5 years Jarusa, it's now time for the club to join me and make some f&%$king decisions.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

It's the entitlement attitude expressed by many I am arguing against not you personally.

I think we have to blame ourselves as members more. We had a chance to make decent changes to the board earlier this year and only bought in 1 new face.

... and we wonder why we are struggling.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

My sister went to that board meeting and let me tell you that it was a shocker.

Collo had everything planned out for that meeting even when it got heated, he had the compulsory kid [9 years old] standing in the back who interrupted my sister by asking if we could sing the team song.

Collo naturally called him up, sang the song and the meeting was over.

Not sure what rights a 9 year old has at a member's meeting.

The 'supporters' who only sign up to be members when we are winning should be smacked.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.