Couldn't help yourself could you

I asked the question in the context of this thread - I think he is the standout captian of the side in everything but title and his leadership qualities are superb.

What you called for last year, with most people agreeing with you (me too), was for Lance to stand up and show some leadership in a team that had none. This leadership was to be shown in how he played, what his pay demands were, the shape he was in, and how he carried his status of "senior player". So each of those points was relevant to the Leadership angle of this thread. And you've answered them... I think...

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Congratulations CK95

None of the candidates in the 25-30 year age group are worthwhile in the long-term. Is there somebody we could appoint on a two-year basis so that we can give them the boot when Murphy et al are ready to fill their shoes?

Look another way of doing it is to use all the players that should be at the club for the next few years as a leaderhip block.

My mail suggests Stevo will be captain anyway.
Id have a satelliete of kids in a leadership role off him including Fev and Lance (if we dont have the boldness to trade him ) ..Waite..T Bird ... Fisher... Fisher..Bentick..Walker.. Wiggo...Murphy..etc

Hopefully the extra responsibility helps to feed and nurture future leaders at the club.
Its time the kids start growing up even faster and they begin taking tose steps.
We need to place faith in them and allow them the opportunity to reciprocate that faith back to the club.

I really dont understand why we cannot get brave.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Lance should only be traded if we can strike a deal with a club that is willing to pay over the odds in draft picks. I agree with Synbad that the game is getting faster and Lance aint getting any more mobile, but I think that will only prevent him from playing key backline positions. Even if he loses another step in pace as he ages, his positioning and contested marking abilty would allow him to be an effective target up forward for a while yet.

I think in the short term it would piss off a lot of supporters and players if Lance were traded but if you could get a team's 1st and 2nd round picks and draft a talented young ruck like Leunberger and tough mid like hislop, it could be a big step towards building a team that could genuinely give the flag a shake. That said, if we were offered just a 2nd rounder - superdraft or not, it just wouldn't be worth the risk; there was a judd in 2001 but there was also a sampi.

We invest 100s of thousands of dollars a year in a recruiting department .
You HAVE TO TRUST IT!!... or there is no point investing any money there.

thats how a sound operation thinks.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Apparently Lance barracked for Essendon* as a kid. He never saw his father play (too young).

Pretty strange really.

Aside from that I wouldn't give it to Lance. He's finally playing decent football - why complicate it?

The sad fact of the matter is that we don't have any stand-outs of appropriate age at the moment. In 4-5 years time we should have a handful. Reading Maxy's post at the start of this thread brought a tear to the eye. Christ we were spoilt rotten back then.

Stevens will probably get it but he's not ideal in the way that he's a good player but not a number one midfielder (though finds himself in that position).

If we could land a big trade I'd be rapt but it would have to be a REALLY big trade and with Essendon* threatening to throw their chequebook around at the end of the year we're unlikely to land anyone in the Sticks/Barassi league.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

It isn't strange if you known their family

So did Jarrad Waite.

Also these days you are more than likely to catch Wayne Harmes at a Richmond game as he used to follow them as a kid. If he does go to a Richmond game he will be looking at an old team mate Wayne Johnston acting as a runner.

All very confusing and a bit sad really.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

sadly, says a bit about our club at the moment I reckon.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

this thread is about leadership, not recruitment. so WHO or WHOM is best placed to lead our club in the coming years?

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17 4 10

Surely Lance is if not acting captain on the field close to it.

He is always directing traffic congratulating young players for good work putting his body in and shows great leadership.

He does not have to do much more as captain than to toss a coin.

Though Lance is probably our best player and undoubtedly a leader on the field thanks to his footy brain amongst other things, and will probably get the nod. And though Stevens and Fev and maybe even Lappo may be given consideration as captaincy material, there is one guy who is often overlooked. Young Brett Thornton to my mind is exactly what a captain needs to be. Hard working , selfless and team spirited . has virtually never put a foot wrong in four tough seasons on or off the field. and this after being thrown in at the proverbial deep end. Almost always beats his man (some of the toughest seasoned campaigners), will be a ten year and more player all being well. If I was a Carlton player I would follow him through thick and thin. He is our Glen Archer. As I say he is overlooked in many ways and will probably need just a couple more fine seasons before he is seriously in line for the job but we could do a lot worse. Sometimes the less obvious is the right choice.

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carn the blues

i used to play footy at lalor a few years back and i spent a whole day babysitting his kids. i didnt even see lance there i just took the kids down to the park and played with them.

You see that is where some of us look a little too much through Navy Blue glasses. Brett Thornton tries very hard and puts in his all every week, but you would not call him a great player. He does his best, but he probably gets beaten more times than he wins. He also dummy-spits more than I would like a leader to do.


As for comparisons with Glen Archer... well, let's just reserve that judgement.

As for comparisons with Glen Archer... well, let's just reserve that judgement. [/quote]

glenn archer was never the full time captain of the kangaroos he might have filled in a couple of times i dunno and i think bret has the potential to develop into an A-grade defender i dont think you can compare him to archer in the way he plays because archer played more of a courageous and hard tough game whereas bret has a bit of natural skill (save the jokes) and is athletic

So what's changed in 12 months?

We now have off-field leadership.

Leadership from the head coach is still questionable.

Leadership in the playing group from so called senior players is virtually non-existent, although will give credit to Jarrad Waite for pushing on the 2nd half, he wouldn't have done it previously. Not being at the game makes assessment difficult, but the players who tried to 'impose' themselves on the game were the 18-23 bracket.

There are two players in particular (who played today) who need to be moved on who are hindering on field leadership and they are being protected by the coach. I would say the president and the CEO are now aware there is a deep rooted issue which must be addressed for the on-field side to move forward. The coach is vulnerable, so are some previously thought 'safe' players I would think.

Maybe it's '65 all over again. 42 is divisable by 7.

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17 4 10

We miss Nick Stevens massively. He isn't the only answer, but needs to be our Captain from next year on. Fev needs to be removed from any leadership group full stop. Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Waite and Walker as deputies to Stevens next year.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Stevens captain but if not him cant understand why we wouldnt be grooming Andrew Walker as our next captain -the talk is all about Murphy and Gibbs and their turn will come but surely we should look to Andrew Walker next -he obviously bleeds Carlton

Hard to fathom how Walks is not in the current leadership group Frank.
I wonder if his absence reflects the opinions of him from the playing group?

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There's so much I could say...