Been pathetic since the first game. Scotland, Houla, Stevens, Simpson - all less than average. Murphy is way too young to hold the whole department up. Stevens has to become more accountable as it's killing us.

If you look at Champion Data stats for the game, these boy sracked up fair points.

Think the only one below 100 points was Stevens.

_________________
Supporting the Blues No Matter What

Those 'stats' would mean something it the team won every week. Workrate, stats, hypoe, it's all part of the cancer of this modern game. What about SKILL LEVEL? I mean some of the seagulls on the ground rack up stats from time to time.

we were slaughtered in the midfield, so much so that at half time I said to jack that the game was over. I'm trying to protect his oh so frail bluebagger heart (and I @#$%&! hate the AFL for that one)

Every throw in, ever ball up, the killed us. Stop Stevens and Carlton are dead in the water.

On Houla - he will win plenty of praise but some time ago i said Carlton will be a good side when teague can no longer get a game. i say the same now about Houla.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

We're competitive now, and honourable losses are certainly better than 100 point floggins, but we're about three good midfielders short of a being a decent side. Wallace is a good enough coach to realise that and just told the Tigers to keep running after quarter time. We are going to lose to a lot of sides this season because of this.

They just came off 2 interstate games and a shorter week than us.
Id love to see how we used the bench.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad, can you tell me the difference between Campo and Stevens?

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Ok.. one walked into a Carlton premiership was given an armchair ride for 10 years by the club... saw great times here... pointed his fingers alot to his team mates to do is manning up for him..finds on field scirmishes as sneaky excuses not to work.. has black hair an artists goattee sometimes.. and pissed off to Essendon*.

the other one came to us from Port..walking away from a premiership.. started his time here working hard.. has accepted the tone of the place as set by Mssrs Kouta and Campo.. doesnt point at others to deflect.. doesnt get into arguments on the field as an excuse not to be in a contest... and has blond hair and is clean shaven.

How did i go???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Probably pretty good. How about the 2nd one set his own tone? If Im not mistaken you'd like to see him appointed captain? Wouldn't that take some kind of leadership? An ability to set an example?

At least Campo bothered to point to others to man up for him. Stevens seems to think he's paid enough he doesn't need to worry about it.

When we're being absolutely mauled at the centre bounces there are two Richmond players on their defensive side, Stevens off to the side all on his own, waiting for a lucky one to come out his way, when all the percentages say its not going to.

Richmond streaming forward, two loose players on the HFF, Stevens and Scotland jogging through the centre like they didn't have a care in the world. The ironic thing was that by the time Stevens caught up to the play Richmond centred the ball and he was there to spoil the marking contest.

He's every bit as unaccountable as Campo ever was, plus some, and people around here want him to be the one setting the example.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Brad..????
Stevens is all but captain next year.

And whilst were on the captaincy and midfielders... can you show me where the captain sets the tone with any intensity at all???

At least Stevens runs.


See??? Its all about standards.

The standards set are pretty low... that rubs off on the whole team and it filters its effects all the way down till it catches up with the kids.

I dont get your point here Brad...

Are you saying we should have given Campo the $400k we offered him to him???
Are you saying Stevens isnt a good captaincy prospect and we should keep Kouta captain longer??
Are you saying because Campo was a cheat and Stevens isnt playing well Campo is excused???

Im just rapt a cancer is gone.. and id like to think we treat all probelms on their merits.
If Stevens can bring us something good.. great!!!...

Lance??? Even better.. cos we need stevens in our side more than we need Lance...

I dont have a problem with anything if it means helping our kids and getting better.

So what is your point?

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ive never liked Scotland

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

I cant believe the grief Stevens cops and you really seem to have him in your sights Brad.

He is carrying the deficiencies of this team more than anyone.
The mc's idea of rotating Stevens is placing him on a wing for a rest.
How much rest would a midfielder get on a wing?

He plays full games against players who get full rotations including bench recoveries.

If Walker and Murphy want inspiration for pushing yourself to the absolute limit, Stevens is the best role model we can show them.

As for this thread canning our midfield since the first round
No idea.

Did you happen to watch last weeks game Bosustow?

How much time did Betts or Carrazzo spend in the middle last night.
Our midfielders are just blatantly overworked and under rotated.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Plus Stevens is carrying a groin.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

We shouldn't have given Campo the $400k
I dont think Stevens is a good captaincy prospect. That doesn't mean I think Kouta is setting a good example out there or that we have a better prospect.
It doesn't excuse Campo and I'm not talking about how well Stevens is playing. I'm talking about his unaccountability and comparing it to Campo's, he's worse.

BV, I just think we need to expect a little more from him. He may very well be overworked, but does that excuse him from being accountable? From standing to the side at centre bounces when we're getting mauled in there, waiting for the easy one to come out?

Campo got canned for it last season, and this is not a defence for Campo at all, we're far better off without him, but Stevens is no better.

We could show them some old videos of Craig bradley for inspiration on pushing yourself to the limit. Robert Harvey would also be a great example. I've got no doubt that Stevens does run himself into the ground, however its not by chasing his opponant.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

now see BV on this we agree. We needed to rework the midfield completely last night as it clearly wasn't working. And yes Bench Stevo for a rest and maybe to break the tag or at least give him a shot and getting us going again. We did so well in the first because Stevo worked his arse off.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Terry rotated his players on/off the bench which allowed them to run free into space and chase.

Pagan hardly used the bench because as he quoted on 3AW last night "we are trying to condition the players to play 4 qrts of football, not 3 qrt and we thought that our senior midfield players were getting enough of the ball and to take them off to bring on a young player doing his apprenticeship may have hurt us"

Conclusion. Richmond, fresh players with run in there legs. Carlton, tried players who couldn't chase (now that's another issue anyway as they never seem to)

The days where players run out 4 quarters have been gone for nearly a decade.
The game is too fast.
You want them on fresh and full of intensity now.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Gary Lyon made a good point about our midfield....dont do enough with the ball..get a fair bit of the ball but get no results from it....

Richmond got great value and disposal from their second stringers...Hyde killed us and used the footy well and other blokes like Hartigan and Tivendale did the same......

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

After the 1st Quarter the mid field got spanked and where we lost it was that we couldnt win the clearances in the centre bounce or around the ground. What this showed was that the Tiger midfield wanted the ball more got in and under and worked to get the ball out. Our midfield tended to stand back more and wait for the ball to come out.
If you look at our midfiled split it into two groups
Extractors
Bentick - Goes in hard chases and contests
Kouta - Still good in clearance but wont chase or contest if the ball is more than 5 meters from him. The ball has to be inside 5 meters of Kouta for him to bother.
Betts - Will always chase / tackle and get in ....wasnt used enough when we where being killed in the clearances shoud have been given more of a go in the packs.
Murphy - is a 50/50 will go in for the ball and will be outside player but at present better when he gets space because uses the ball so well when he gets it.

Outside players
Stevo - plays all game is heavily tagged and is better again to get the ball and use it but does lack accaountability but when does tackle and contest.
Scotland - Again gets the ball but lacks accountability and also seems to currently play too much for himself and not enough for the team can be good but also inconsistant
Houla - Reciever good siposal but dont expect a hard ball get or any contesting.
Simmo - Reciever but he does contest and will chase and run the lines

Maybe blackwell is an option even though he may still is light on but is another player that will go in for the ball but also can get it out.

So only 2 players we used tonite when the Tigers started to work harder where bentick and Kouta prob exlains why we lost a lot of the clearances
Should have put Betts into the middle or even Russell to get the ball out for the outside players need to try more things when we are being beaten badly re: around the bounces.

Was absolutely dismayed last night when I heard Pagan's comment on 3AW re 4 QTR midfield workout. The game has SOOOOOO passed Pagan by he has no answers.

Collo, Pagan the fairytale is over there will be no happy ending.