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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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BlueWorld wrote:
Murphy can't be expected to play well every week... like this week. That's why you need experienced players in the side.


yeah, I'm sure having Chambers next to him is a real motivation for Murphy.

"gee, if he's my teammate I'll have to play twice as hard"

:garthp:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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jluzza wrote:
I don't know which Carlton Stevo is watching but I don't think that we are anywhere close to playing winning football. Why - I'll tell you why:

1) Players are inconsistent - Scotland (and others) brilliant one week and useless the next week.

2) Poor skill level - just look at our shooting at goal and general field disposal. We CANNOT hit targets or man up!

3) Game Plan - I (like the players) have NO IDEA what it is.

Am I alone here or do others agree????????


frm pagans paddock 2 pagans flood he is moses gone wrong

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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More of a confidence piece from Stevo really. Sure reality is that we're not playing that well, but the thing is does he publicly denigrate his colleagues? No, he supports them, he has confidence in them. He needs to otherwise we're shot as a football club.

I suspect that a lot of the problems we're facing stem from confidence that has been engrained by our losing culture over the last few years. We need to get used to winning otherwise we will go the way of St Kilda.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:38 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Bring back the Blue Birds!!

That'll get them going. A few jealous girlfriends and few tiffs and the boys will take it out on the field with gusto. We need things stirred up. We're only a couple of percentage points behind; not far. We've got the muscle now after a big pre season. All we've got to do is believe that we are going to win as a group; every game!

It's all about confidence.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The Tyrant wrote:
BlueWorld wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
"Killing" might have been a bit of an exaggeration

"not helping" is more accurate

Take your pick from DeLuca, Chambers, Sporn.........


Chambers & Sporn didn't play this week so you can't blame it on them.


the "......." indicate there are more..... there is a subset that when dipped into our chances of winning don't increase. Teague, sadly, is also on that list.


Is Saddington in your list of "......" - because, he is after all a retread.
How excited were you by the way that Russell performed of Friday night?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:00 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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showbag wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
BlueWorld wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
"Killing" might have been a bit of an exaggeration

"not helping" is more accurate

Take your pick from DeLuca, Chambers, Sporn.........


Chambers & Sporn didn't play this week so you can't blame it on them.


the "......." indicate there are more..... there is a subset that when dipped into our chances of winning don't increase. Teague, sadly, is also on that list.


Is Saddington in your list of "......" - because, he is after all a retread.
How excited were you by the way that Russell performed of Friday night?


I'd say Saddington and Russell were about as effective as each other on Friday night.

At least with Russell he's younger and his slope for improvement is more likely to be steeper

with Saddo you know what you've got

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:03 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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We will beat Richmond this week and I am confident we will also defeat the "Lloydless" Essendon*...and be competitive vs Collingwood however I think the Pies may have a bit too much size for us and win this round but we will get them in the return round....plenty to look forward too and I reckon Kennedy and some of the other youngsters should get a game in some of these blockbusters just to get a taste of the big time...that means not dropping Russell....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:09 am 
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Bruce Doull
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jluzza wrote:
I don't know which Carlton Stevo is watching but I don't think that we are anywhere close to playing winning football. Why - I'll tell you why:

1) Players are inconsistent - Scotland (and others) brilliant one week and useless the next week.

2) Poor skill level - just look at our shooting at goal and general field disposal. We CANNOT hit targets or man up!

3) Game Plan - I (like the players) have NO IDEA what it is.

Am I alone here or do others agree????????


I think Stevo actually covered all your points in the article. From lack of finish, not taking chances and not having a full compliment of key position forwards to play to. You could say it includes all players, not just Scotland.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Rod McGregor
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The game will change once our defensive and midfield unit is much stronger. Or biggest weakness is our defence. Once we can rectify this area, we can entrust our players to win the ball in the defence half and with a dedicated midfield run the ball forward without the use for heavy flooding. This is remeniscent of the different soccer styles of play.

We have a potent forward line, blue collar midfield and weak defence. Our midfield has improved in the last couple of years (and still needs further work), but our defensive area still requires major work. Therefore, to win a game you need to strengthen your weakness and hence the use of the flood. The midfield being more a defence unit and the forward line playing as midfield-forwards and trying to run the ball up.

When we have a better defensive unit that can win the ball, we would not need to have so many people running back to help. It sounds very simplistic and I suppose that's how I am coneveying it, but in essence that what I believe it is. This is the reason why whitnall is on the backline and not playing forward. This is the reason we traded for a middle age defender last year. Once we can get some good players in defence, and our young midfield get better, you will see a different game style and more wins. If Livo and Hartlett can play some good footy, you will start seeing some changes in style.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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CaptnCarlton wrote:
The game will change once our defensive and midfield unit is much stronger. Or biggest weakness is our defence. Once we can rectify this area, we can entrust our players to win the ball in the defence half and with a dedicated midfield run the ball forward without the use for heavy flooding. This is remeniscent of the different soccer styles of play.

We have a potent forward line, blue collar midfield and weak defence. Our midfield has improved in the last couple of years (and still needs further work), but our defensive area still requires major work. Therefore, to win a game you need to strengthen your weakness and hence the use of the flood. The midfield being more a defence unit and the forward line playing as midfield-forwards and trying to run the ball up.

When we have a better defensive unit that can win the ball, we would not need to have so many people running back to help. It sounds very simplistic and I suppose that's how I am coneveying it, but in essence that what I believe it is. This is the reason why whitnall is on the backline and not playing forward. This is the reason we traded for a middle age defender last year. Once we can get some good players in defence, and our young midfield get better, you will see a different game style and more wins. If Livo and Hartlett can play some good footy, you will start seeing some changes in style.
Our defence isn't that bad, better than it was anyway, and is aided when we apply midfield pressure to the opposition runners. Flooding has cost us each time this year as the opposition still finds ways to kick goals It's something we struggle to do becasue we have no options forward of the centre as they are all behind the ball, hence falling well behind on the scoreboard. In each loss, once we've started attcking, because we're goals behind and have nothing to lose, we get right back into the game. I would rather risk a few hidings to have a better chance of scoring goals and winning. Sure we would've won the Freo and Swans games if we had been more attacking and been 3-0 at that stage. Then we would've have been talking something different. It comes down to our coach, who's simply way past it, and his game plan. Too busy worry about copping a hiding rather than being positive about winning. Time to get rid of him.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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who knows what denis is or isn't afraid of Jim?

One thing is certain if you are only ever a couple of goals down your chances of winning are far greater than if you are 10 goals down


and i for one, never ever wish to see another Richmond game like the first clash last year. Yep we attacked then.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:31 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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dannyboy wrote:
who knows what denis is or isn't afraid of Jim?

One thing is certain if you are only ever a couple of goals down your chances of winning are far greater than if you are 10 goals down


and i for one, never ever wish to see another Richmond game like the first clash last year. Yep we attacked then.
Like the way we attacked them the second time around in a high scorer and thumped them, not the first time when we didn't have a go. Have a look, flooding is killing us, sides are still scoring against us and we can't score because we don't have numbers. We end up 5-6 goals down. We're not a great re-bounding side, so you have to have numbers up. It's when we do attack we get back into the game. I'm sure you're a smart enough man to see that. i would rather see the odd floggiing and attack a bit more than go defensive and cut our losses. We would win more games, like the Freo and Swans games, for example. Denis is past it, I'm sure you're a smart enough to see that too.

Why does he flood like crazy straight off? You don't need a psychology degree to work that one out.!!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Hawthorn had men back.

Sydney had men back.

Its not as if we are the only side - so maybe there i a reason.

And again, look at Melbourne when we had Fev & Waite. We counter punched alright that game. But we are young and we are not yet able to cover the loss of Fev and Waite - the players so often against the Hawks turned it over because they didn't know where to go. Lance helped and apart from Carrots, seemed to be the only forward who knew where/when to lead.

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 Post subject: random thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:32 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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barring the early Essendon* and hawthorn games last year, accurate kicking has been the main component of the games we have won, i'm fairly certain the demons game could have swung the other way if they'd capitalized in the second quarter, i'm fairly certain we could have really run the hawks if we'd (carrazo'd) taken our chances last friday, the game against the tiges last year, the second one, was ours when we got six or seven straight at the start,

carlton plays clean and jerk football, holding and flooding and then pouncing on the rebound, what we need to do is play with confidence in our forawrd structure (which when the whole team is firing is probably out greatest asset), it looks strange watching bulldogs vs. geelong and seeing their set-up so proper, the fact that it looks strange is, in my opinion, a big problem,

and in the perfect world fevola wouldn't be so important to the team, but...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:19 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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dannyboy wrote:
Hawthorn had men back.

Sydney had men back.

Its not as if we are the only side - so maybe there i a reason.

And again, look at Melbourne when we had Fev & Waite. We counter punched alright that game. But we are young and we are not yet able to cover the loss of Fev and Waite - the players so often against the Hawks turned it over because they didn't know where to go. Lance helped and apart from Carrots, seemed to be the only forward who knew where/when to lead.
So far it has cost us games because we end up goals down. So why persist? Unlike those sides we are not a great rebounding side hence we have no-one to kick to because they were all behind the ball. Let's back our players ability a little and play them up the ground a bit more, so we get more midfield run and can apply a little more midfield pressure to the opposition. Seems to work well during second half of games after we've fallen 5 goals down, why not try it from the start. It's when we've played our best footy. Just love it when you stick top a losing game plan!! Flood maybe when we get into trouble to stem the flow rather than at the beginning.


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