Says the bloke who hasnt taken a membership nor goes to the AGMs...

Look.. dont question my commitment to the club... ok???

I do try and get involved because when the members wernt involved we were ar$e raped...

If you were there and could take anything away from it.. you could tell us about it.

But you wernt.. and you have no clue how it was conducted.

If all you want to do is muddy what i say cos its me.. then be prepared to tell me how i am wrong...

Im listening.
....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad are you saying when Caro was on Collos side and started treating our club favourably in the media she decided to head the front page of the sports section of "THE AGE" with the heading "BLUEBEGGERS" when two directors told her that we were going to ask for AFL assistance.
Will you stop shooting yourself in the foot.

woof yes she was.

Of course when you sell your soul to the devil you can expect things to not always go the way you like them.
the Age has been far friendlier to us than the Herald.sun.

Im not shooting myself in the foot... i think the club is...

You go back over the whole Caro Carlton thing and youll find Caro has been a great ally of Collos.
PS the Age even sponsor us... !!!.. its true!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You muddy what everyone else says if it does not follow your opinion to the letter, rather than analysing it and treating it as another possibility.

I am a student with no part-time work at the moment dude. I'll probably buy one within the week but it's tough when you know you're eating into your savings.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

don't worry about trhe membership thing, I don't send money to Afghanastan, does that mean I can have no opinion on what is happening there?

For those with money, its easy. Those without its a whole different kettle of fish. Support has nothing to do with membership.

Membership has everything to do with support.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

She sold her soul to the Devil as well. She is now a liar

Fair enough. They don't have to report on how they are going to achieve their aims. As is obvious, we can debate the merits of whether they should be sharing this with the members or not but I just want to establish what information there is out there now to judge them on.

So,

Can anyone tell me what result the board was hoping for this year? Did they achieve the target? I think I heard somewhere they were banking on a loss of $1 mil so they did reach their target, although I did hear there were some funny things done with the numbers between the social club and the footy club.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to what the targets were for both entities.

What result are they hoping for next year? Once again for both entities.

I just want to at least judge them on what they have made available to us and so far, from what I have seen on this and other message boards is a lot of people debating with their own perceptions and not the raw facts.

[/img]

Molly,

I haven't questioned the compentence of the board at all or implied that they were incompetent.
All I'm saying is that they should provide an outline of their objectives for the next three years. Yes, to be cash neutral is one of the objectives but is this all there striving for?

North used to win a few games Muzza - and they had the best player to ever pull on a boot (arguably) - but they still made no dough.

Synbad is pretty well spot on here - we are in major strife financially - there is no vision (agree the club shouldn't release a business plan per se but crikey give us something) and our marketing is incredibly shabby and amateurish compared to other clubs. I walk past the club shop every day and it looks like an op shop.

We are basically right were the AFL wants us - the cynic in me suggests that Demitrispew and Collo have already worked out what is going to happen to us - and the club will just be run into the ground in the meantime. If we want something different then we are the ones who need to make it happen. There aint no white knight ready to charge in on his steed.

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

Share your thoughts, what have Andy and Collo worked out?

When was the last time Myer was looking for sponsors, or BHP or Telstra.

When were ANZ last on the phone or the footy show pleading for members?
We are trying to sell a vision here. God knows we cannot rely on our appeal onfield or our past financial management as redeeming features.
Sponsors and corporate partners want more than they are recieving.
We are budget basement at the moment because we cannot sell a vision.

You're right Molly, the board is not doing something to that required by law.
But the basics required by law is insufficient.
Our sponsorship base is diminishing, our membership is down and corporate involvement is struggling badly.
Companies expect more than "trust me, I'm a Doctor".
They want to be involved with innovative, exciting organisations.

When we've got the money of Myer, we can return to arrogant exclusion again.
Until then we have to do far better.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

And Blue Vain,

you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. In fact, I may even agree with you
What I think is important here though is that members who have not made up their minds about the Board do not rush into a decision just based on the fact that the membership have not been presented with a 'vision'. Instead, it is important that they make their own evaluations and ignore a lot of the emotive stuff which is being written on this site. The basis of their conclusions can then become apparent at the next AGM. I just want people on this site to do their own research, reach their own conclusions, and not base their decision on the input of TC'ers intent on pushing political agendas and creating mischief. That is my simple request.

I must say this is my biggest concern after attending the AGM. They think that by shrinking the budget to a NM level and then wait for better onfield results all will be good. I think it is a big mistake. It is a defensive and dangerous strategy.

Point accepted Molly but how exactly do you suppose we, the great unwashed masses do that research t6o make up our own minds? I accept your comments about the requirements of disclosure under corporations law but lets not forget that commercial organisations mostly exist in an environment where there may be consequences to any failure to disclose additional information to investors. Share price may drop, disillusionded major or institutional investors may dump their holdings. If their share price falls too low then they may come under threat of a takeover and we all know what happens to incumbent senior executives when a new mob takes over!!!!

There's the shareholder's association and ASIC keeping them honest. There are rules pertaining to when they can, and when they must release announcements, how they make those announcements, escrow arrangements etc etc etc. All in all a very regulated environment. A lot of the executives have their remuneration tied to earnings/share price whatever and it is in their interest to tell the right people, at the right time that they are heading in the right direction. There is a whole industry of stockbrokers and advisers that makes a living out of interpreting this stuff and selling the equivalent kind of research that you suggest that we do independantly on the Carlton Footy Club Board.

Personally I dont want to be negative but I think we are right to question the direction of the club and the reasons behind any lack of disclosure. If we were steaming ahead in the right direction why wouldnt Collo and others want to sing it from the top of the Great Southern Stand. OK we might be meeting the minimum requirements of Corporations Law, but why are we stopping there. CFC sells a product that is based on hope, dreams and emotion and we are hiding behind the the Corporations Act?

There has to be a reason, saying the media is bad, just trust us , she'll be right mate!!! Just doesnt cut it! Arent we supposed to be intelligent, critical and questioning? What was the popular opinion like when George Dubbya tried this approach on Iraqi WMD's? As a member I dont need to know our detailed plans any more than Patrick Smith or Caroline Wilson does, but it would inspire some confidence in me if i had more to place my faith in than 'she'll be right mate'. This attitude that the media hates us, we all dont know the real story, stick with us and it'll be OK is wearing very thin!!

Bottom line is that I cannot do the research that you suggest because I dont have the information to make an informed decision. I am suspicious why this information is being witheld and that therefore erodes my confidence in the club. I voted for Lee and Clarke, mostly because I havent seen anything to inspire confidence in the current incumbents. Give me an insight, plan or any other kind of confidence and I might have faith in the plan. At the moment I'm being asked to make decisions in a vaccum so I'm taking a punt on something new!!!

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

molly - Just curious, with 'real' corporations, how long are directors appointed for? I might be wrong by i was under the understanding that all positions are reviewed annually? Certainly its not the cycling 3 yr terms which the club has atm.
The second point would be how many boards would get away with stating upkeep costs for an item are 150k-300/annum one week, 500k/annum the a few months later (both figures quoted pre-move to the dome) and 1.8 million just 13months later (post move). Then at an AGM just a week and a half after the 1.8mill figure has been bandied around members (stakeholders) are told the figure is 800k and then 1.3mill by 2 seperate boardmembers. In your mind, what is the true upkeep cost of the ground? I know enough about inflation to know that upkeep costs for an item dont suddenly blow out by 600% in the space of a year. Its even worse if you consider that we decided to forgo our ability to derive any revenue from it. Given that the lower figures were quoted when the board was trying to garner support to move to the dome and the 1.8mill figure has since been bandied about when we are apparently having tight cashflow what do you think has happened/is happening?




That was something that I wrote in another thread after doing some research on 'publically' available information from the clubs website (which one would assume is more accurate than newspaper reports as it is a more direct source and many of the releases are through our communications manager etc). Now I dont have an agenda and I presume, in the absence of other 'data' that trawling through 50odd pages of news archives from the club webpage is considered adequate research - In which case the above paragraph is astounding. The conclusions drawn from the above paragraph are based reasonable assumptions PROVIDED that all the previous statements released by the board are truthful (something they are required to do by law). Call me stupid but I doubt anyone would be able to get a considered response if the above concerns were reaised at the recent AGM. So pray tell, why should anyone expect things to be different at the next AGM?[/b]

excellent 4thechicken. I am astounded/confused by the sloppiness of the number crunching/public statements re debt/costs and I'm a number cruncher!

someone asked earlier what I think Collo/AD have cooked up together. It's just the Dennis Denuto vibe I get from them being good mates and draft penalty acceptance (sorry)/running off to Telstra Dome/AFL presumably taking over PP (surely this is a done deal)/nice statements in the media from AD about how well our board is doing and how we have slashed debt (what the?).

ps I went to the club shop off Lygon St at lunchtme - it is worse than an opshop... at least the oppy has clean carpet...

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

Did i hear correctly? Bertocchi just announced as a sponsor for 2006

It is important we question. It is important we seek the best possible board/ outcomes/vision.

Not everything is about being negative.

Sometimes it's about ensuring this shite doesn't happen again.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Can the mods check this.
I fear someone logical has ambushed Danny's account.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.