Thanks, for putting that better than I could.

I hope the issue with pick 52 changes with the draft and is not Pagan’s (or anybody else's) imposed policy. I thought the issue in Sydney’s post was the value of lower draft picks not whether we should have recruited Jason Saddington.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

'All stops must come out' so let me get this right, when you said all stops, you didn't actually mean all stops, you meant all 'reasonable' stops - in which case we agree.

then again you may have meant all stops out when you said all stops out - in which case your fear of falling sky is getting the better of you.

then again you may simply be being inconsistent - you know, making arguments up on the run in a blind panic, rather like 'the sky is falling', in which case there is no hope to any of these discussions as your points will all be different tomorrow or next week or next year and the points you will have made will be damned by anyone else who makes them.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The Reality is that to get good players you have to present a good club which is running successfully and showing a positive future not one that is showing that it is struggling and not showing on field or off field success.

Now from another thread some discussion was on Sponsers and if this is the case will be something to put some positive off field spin to a the public and more importantly to the Members / supporters and Players.

To get these good players IE Judd / Kosi / Bartel / Power ect if they want to leave that is first tep for them but i have doubts if they are going to leave a successful culture / club to a basket case that is currently Carlton.

So if Power did want to leave and the only option was the Blues good chance he would have said what will the Blues offer me... and so far i would have to say very little.

SO to get these players CFC have to start projecting positives both on and off the field. We have everthing else for the club that has a huge history / great success / Culture of winning / this is what CFC need to get and to achieve this we need to show success on and off the field.

Synbad you are wanting to get all these great players for the club and geez who wouldnt but in our present state we not gonna have much success until we show success. We couldnt even trade Campo off for someone from Essendon* not cause a deal couldnt be struck because the players we tried to get didnt want to come to the blues.

I am more worried about retaining the good young talent on our list if we dont get our act together this year. So this year we have to start climbing up the ladder we need to do a richmond this year and get confidence in our players / Supporters / sponsers / Members ect . Do that and you will attract players to this club rather than pay them 2 times what they are worth for them to even consider moving and even then they aint coming to us lol
And Saddington / Maclaren let them at least play some games before we crucify and put them over the hot spit. maybe they will surprise us and be positive additions

Again this only an opinion but you have said we need to get these high calibre players well to do that we need to create a strong carlton that makes these players want to come to the club want to stay and put CFC back as a power that it should be.

This has been Synbad's message all along.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Yeah, your right, how rude of me; considering I value Synbad's opinion and all.



Sorry Dannyboy, I just had to get that in.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

The call itself isnt that bad if you take into account the need to bring on field success for memberships/support. He was still young at the time (24/25 i think), completely injury free and performed (and still does) at a very high and consistent level. Would have made a huge impact to the midfield/forward line over the past few yrs - walker though showing promise still hasnt done anything yet. Considering that we were lamenting the lack of support for kouta/campo/stevens - Brown would have been a good addition on and off the field (media profile).

I believe that Synbad's point is valid to a degree.The problem is that line of recruiting got us into this mess in the first place.


I agree that are leadership group is shit and that many posters ignore this fact and that is one of the reasons we have had so many floggings over the years.

Kouta probably wont be there in 2007.


I believe guys like Simpson,Bentick,Waite will assume leadership roles naturally and we wont need a Luke Power.It will happen,but everyone must be patient.Its been a shit 4 years but where getting there slowly.Take a look at Geelong.You can see the leadership development in Ling,Kelly,Bartel etc .That will happen at Carlton but it takes time.


No boubt Power is a gun but what do you have to give to get him.That quick fix approach is old style recruiting.I would rather our recruiting staff look at where we need to improve and recruit those type young players.

This is the ultimate plan, however Synbad's point is that the current leadership role models these boys have (and have had) are poor (by current AFL standards).

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Positive from todays Corporate newsletter:

There has recently been some bewildering media comment to the effect that Carlton is struggling for sponsors. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

In 2006, Optus, Dan Murphy’s, K & S Freighters and Nike will again demonstrate their partnership with Carlton through branding on the player’s uniforms. In an exciting development, over the next few weeks we will be launching a 2006 coach sponsor, a new venue naming right sponsor and an exciting new team outfit sponsor.

When the new signings are announced, it will be a significant step in a
2 year program that has lead to Carlton having one of the strongest and most diverse sponsorship portfolios in Australian team sports.

http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8895

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Can never hear enough of the good news Jar....

I reckon thats all great.... but it doesnt mean anything.
The club was on the backfoot a couple of weeks ago with its money situation.
Each club has a coach sponsor... a team outfit sponsor...
Im not trying to put a negative spin on that.. just being realistic that every club has these..
Our problem is we have one of the least turnovers of any AFL club.. which means we have a long long long way to go to be a strong club off the field.
After coming out and telling us for three years what a perilous position we are financially... now they are coming out to say "She will be right mate!!!!"

Its just more mixed signals.. because you just know that in 2 weeks something contrary will come out!!!!....

And thats why we cant sell ourselves to anyone.. noone knows whats going on from one day to the next...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'd rather read about the FACT that we have a full complement of sponsors than the FALLACY that we have hardly any.

I'm interested in the figures.....how much are we getting in comparison to say what Collingwood are getting from Lexus etc....and what are the length of the sponsorship agreements. You cant have medium to long term projections based on short term agreements and that impacts on how you operate and budget...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

But theyre the ones that created what you might think is a fallacy .. theyre the ones telling us were [REDACTED] etc.

Of course we will get basic sponsorships.
Each club has these.
Were part of the greatest competition with the hugest television exposure in australia.
If you cant get yourself a coaching sponsor or a clothing sponsor you might as well be in the Metro league..

The test is getting the extra sponsors that keep the sheriffs from knocking at your front door.
Were a 19 million dollar turn over club and other clubs are into the thirties and one is at around forty...

Depends on what your expectations are...

If our expactatins are that lofty that were comparing ourselves to the Doggies Tigers and North.. were doing fantastic!!!

If however our expectations have slipped and were not comparing ourselves to other minnows of the competition.. Collingwood , Essendon*, Adelaide , WC... were miles behind...

Lets not have North as a yardstick with their "full compliment of sponsors".. trust me they have a coach sponsor and an atire sponsor too...

It wasnt that long ago that our biggest rivals were the Tigers and theyre gone!!!>....

Dont let that hapn to us by just sitting back and saying "we are ok"

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I have no doubt the figures are budget basement but I'm pleased that we have a reasonable complement of sponsors.

Good on Craig Richards and his team for continually getting on the front foot.
It must feel like their worst enemies are within the same organisation at times.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

synbad wrote;

Heaven forbid Synbad, nobody would ever think that you were trying to put a negative spin on things

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks London Blue and Keogh for the reality check.

London Blue highlights why Carlton is moving in the right direction. Well done London Blue reminding us of changes that have happened, and are in place. Thanks for focussing on the obvious reasons why Carlton looks an exciting prospect for improvement (re: culture, memberships, sponsors, wins, premierships).

"....
1. quality draft choices
2. obvious improvement in the development of fisher, walker, simpson, betts, de luca, hartlett, setanta and aisake based on practice match form
3. 2 new assistant coaches with specific expertise that has been missing
4. a fitter whitnall and fevola
5. more body mass on the players
6. One less of the so called parasites (campo)..."

I'm all for change, but I think change has happened for the better. The past is now irrelevant, our old ways of doing things are finished. We're not going back. We are not stuck in the dark ages; it's out with the old and in with the new. We obviously have a platform now that we can use as our springboard to success. Can't you see it? Everyone can see it!! It's the platform we have not had for the past 5 years.

As for leadership, how old were Carey, Hird, Barassi, the St kilda rotators,...when selected to step up to leadership roles, let alone captaincy? And where were their respective teams on the ladder when they did assume their leadership roles? They were what we call 'kids', just like ours, and their respective teams were battling at the time, just like us now, and there was a vaccuum left when old players were finishing their careers, just like us. History has a knack of repeating itself.

Age has nothing to do with leadership....so when Kouta and Lappin are gone (aged30+), and Whitnall finshes (only 26 now), it will be the new who will lead this club; not Power, not Brown, not Voss, as their time will be over when our guys fill the leadership requirement in the next couple of years. ; it's normal, it's Human Nature.

I'm not going to sit here and hope that Kosi, Judd, Power may come to Carlton one day (they are welcome though). I am going to look for the future leaders we already have. I can see that they are leadership quality, and have shown to be quality leaders before they came to Carlton. Quality !!

I agree with Keogh's statement that "guys like Simpson,Bentick,Waite will assume leadership roles naturally and we wont need a Luke Power.It will happen,but everyone must be patient.Its been a shit 4 years but where getting there slowly.Take a look at Geelong.You can see the leadership development in Ling,Kelly,Bartel etc .That will happen at Carlton but it takes time."

There is nothing to worry about with our current crop of players. There's a plethora of good young guys beyond the abovementioned at Carlton who will be our future leaders. Has someone forgotten Stevens? He is our vice captain, and our future captain. He's a natural leader. He's is in good company...and I'm on a good thing barracking for Carlton.

Don't worry about our current inability to attract opposition players of high calibre. We know the reasons. But when we unveil our changing of the guard this year and next to the football community, then the platform we've built today will be their attraction in the future.

I think it's time for a leadership thread, as a gentle reminder, highlighting who is on the list, why they are on the list, what leadership experience they bring to Carlton, and why they will make good leaders.

Blue Skies.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

The latest issue of "BRW" has an article on the healthy state of the AFL and NRL, including a table that indicates that $A10.09 million of Carlton's $A19.80 million revenue comes from sponsorship (admittedly it includes merchandising revenue). The Pies' revenue from sponsorship is given as $A14.18 million, but their total reveue is listed as $A38.61 million.


Pardon my ignorance, but where is that other $A24 million coming from?