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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:52 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Cazzesman wrote:
BKB,

I can't understand why people don't think Saddington will be a worthy addition to the CFC backline. He 26 and played 142 AFL games. He's 194cm and 93kg. He's mobile, can take a mark and has decent skills.

A Swans recruiter told me on Draft day that if Saddo had been fit in 2005 he would have been in their best 25 to be picked for the GF team. That's not a bad wrap.

Saddo wanted a change and to come back to Melb. The Swans wanted to free up some money in their cap after the GF win. CFC were never going to use pick 52 so it was a generous swap IMHO.

It has been 18 months since the reco and the knee structure is said to be good as gold. The Cyst he had removed recently was a minor hiccup and had nothing to do with ligaments or cartilage.

He looked composed, experienced and reliable down back in the VFL in just half a game. Give him a solid 4 weeks on the track and a few VFL games under his belt and he will be back in the Seniors very quickly.

If he can hold down a key back position it will do a number things.

1. It will free up Lance down back to create more or to be pushed forward as required.
2. Give Kennedy Hartlett, Bower and Edwards time to settle in and grow in size and strength.
3. Provide valuable assistance and experience to T-Bird.

The Blues were never going to use pick 52 so if CFC can get 2-3 seasons out of Saddo while the young big guys learn their trade then the swap has worked. Time will tell.

Some may say he is keeping the young kids out of the Seniors but try looking at it another way........If the kids show they are good enough in the VFL they will get a look in later in the year.

I always worry that if some kids get it tooooo easy toooo early then they forget how hard they need to keep working to succeed over a long period. If you listened to Barry Mitchell on Saturday you will know that he reminded a few of this fact. Nothing should come easy in the AFL for an 18/19 year old. The rug can be quickly pulled from under and many a big head has banged itself on the door jam on the way out.

A two year apprenticeship in the VFL for an 18/19 year old KPP should not to be seen as a hindrance. It can only help to forge a 10 year career.

Regards Cazzesman



Tend to agree with you on Saddington. Did not sacrifice much for him trade wise nor in money terms with Sydney continuing to pay a portion of his salary. Our defence is woeful, so the logic to pick him up is a sound one. We need to have depth in our backline because I do not want to see out of form players continuing to get a game because of no other alternatives.

However, the reason most supporters like myself become sceptical is that our track record over the past few years has been woeful. None of our recent trades with the exception of McGrath are in our starting line up. Of the current players that have survived the cull, Teague, McClaren, Longmuir, Chambers, cannot/will nott crack a regular spot in the seniors with arguably the worst playing list in the competition.

Secondly, I cannot believe Carlton given the playing list it has would not have gambled with pick 52. Our track record for 4th round picks is exceptional. For a start we could have shopped for another ruckman. McEntee was on offer before the preseason draft. We still lack a quality ruckman and the more to choose from the better. Clubs seldom trade etheir quality rucks so we will never buy ourselves a ready made one.

By all accounts, in the NAtional tdraft there was a quality goal kicking midlfielder in Matthew White who got picked up by the Tigers available also.

A two year apprenticeship for a 18/19 year in the VFL in my opinion will stunt their development. The gap between the VFL and AFL has never been so wide. The standard of football cannot be compared. Would rather a player like Russell learning his craft from a Stevens than a Wiggins/Davies type.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
killpies wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If Dylan McLaren was any good the Lions would have kept him...



I was under the impression Brisbane tried to keep McLaren :?:


sshhhhh... .don't ruin the story with the facts... he's on a roll!


*LOL*... you reckon they wanted him???

what for??????

They have 3 senior ruckmen and a gun young ruckman coming through...

What the hell will the Lions do with a 194 cm ruckman???

yes i know he was handy when they had their 3 main ruckmen do a knee all at the same time...and couldnt play ... but you dont try and keep your fifth string ruckman on your list when youre trying to manage a salary cap and a list.

i seriously think you guys have to get fair dinkum!!!... hes rucking and just breaking even for the Bullants.

As for Saddington... he hasnt played consistent footy in three years...
He might be 194 cms but he never played like a 194 cm playert even when his knee was right.
He might have been mobile... but thats before his knee op.. now its always blowing up on him....!!!

Youre not going to get those blokes to be around the club long enough to help out the Murphys and the Walkers....

Theyre not up to AFL scratch to any club worth its salt .!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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So much for the positive thread may as well wind up the blues Synbad all hope is lost lol

Seriously let the first six rounds unfold and see what unfolds.

First the Pre - season means jack already established i mean we won 2 and lost 2 ... saints didnt win one nor did west coast. Sydney and WB one only one.

All those teams will figure strongly through out the year.

Maclaren / Saddington gee i just wanna see how they perform come round 1 before i write them off. Maybe you are right maybe they will be useless Synbad maybe they will provide something i will wait for at least 6 rounds to make my assessment.

In fact the first 6 rounds will indicate if we are going into another horror season or if we are competative. Anyway regardless i am not stating we will be the killer team we will play finals and maybe the doom sayers will be right but at least i will wait to see how the season unfolds.

The Blues are my team and if they are competative i will be happy if they win a few games in the first 6 rounds i will be rapped .... guessin some will even find a negative in that with the killer draft coming up at the end of this year.

Come on guys 8 weeks we can make a proper assessment then the knives can come out or if we show something maybe a few praises regardless this is our Team the Blues lets at least all think the same things and hope they perform beyond what we are expecting them to be.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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keogh wrote:
Saddington may end up great value for the blues but serious knee problems even by today's medical standards reduce a player's effectivness.
We could of pick Ryan Jackson at pick 52 then picked another rookie who could become a regular for far much longer than Saddington so there are arguments for both sides.


It's all maybe, could be, should at this stage. Some players coming back from knees struggle and many others have done okay. Remind me who won our B&F last year and who played virtually every minute of every game. Saddo could be good get or he could be a waste. 2005 will tell all.

Jacko could have been picked at 52 etc etc etc. but he wasn't. Why?

Jacko was passed over in 2004 by all clubs and he was passed over by all clubs in 2005. So far he has done well as a rookie and the club is very happy with him but he is no shoe in as an AFL player just yet.

It's not an argument it's all Crystal Ball stuff really. Ask Jarusa what the % is of pick 52 succeeding in the AFL. Percentage wise, Saddo with 142 games already under his belt was a much safer bet regardless of what anyone thinks. He has also filled a need for a mobile tall down back.

CFC chose not to use pick 52 for a number of reasons, some of which related to listed player contracts and another to salary cap issues.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Appreciate your insights Cazzman good to get some background of what has been done and agreed it is a crystal ball in assessing if something comes off or not.

Anyway GP is on thats a positive

cheers


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:12 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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you mean there were reasons caz!!!!!!!!!!!!!

surely you jest

you can't use reason when the sky is falling!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Players picked at number 52 play on average 15 games.

The best player in terms of games played from pick 52 was Paul Bullus who played 97 games, he is the only pick 52 to get above 50 games.




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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:21 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
you mean there were reasons caz!!!!!!!!!!!!!

surely you jest

you can't use reason when the sky is falling!



same ones as when we got mott...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jarusa wrote:
Players picked at number 52 play on average 15 games.

The best player in terms of games played from pick 52 was Paul Bullus who played 97 games, he is the only pick 52 to get above 50 games.


True but how many players have made it past 40 games post 2000 draft? That would be a more interesting a relevant stat though yes? :)

Having looked over the draft list there's not much we could have missed out on, it boils down to players who have ever increasing deficiencies at that point, and this draft was no exception.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:14 am 
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Robert Walls

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Jarusa wrote:
Players picked at number 52 play on average 15 games.

The best player in terms of games played from pick 52 was Paul Bullus who played 97 games, he is the only pick 52 to get above 50 games.


But there are plenty of players, even picked lower, that do. I can think of at least one. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:31 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Paul Bullus was a champion for the tigers.Didnt Dunstall kick all those goals on him one day out at Waverley.

I must say that is an interesting stat about pick 52 but isnt the average for playing AFL games by all players around 30 to 40 games anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:40 am 
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Ken Hunter
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oh yes well if something doesn't work don't do it again.

which is as silly as if something works once it will work every time.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Pick 52's to 2005 draft.

Robin McKinnon
Stephen Gemmill
Darren Bartsch
Rod Jameson
Brendon Retzlaff
Matthew Henderson
Paul Bulluss
Mathew Dent
Danny Stevens
Adam Ugrinic
Damien Lock
Jordon Doering
Ryan O'Connor
Andrew Mills
Amon Buchanan
Andrew Browne
Not utilised
Not utilised
Dean Limbach
Not utilised

8 of those players never played a game for the club that recruited them.


Post 2000

Andrew Browne
Not utilised
Not utilised
Dean Limbach
Not utilised

So in answer no player post 2000 has played 40 games.

Compared to the number one pick, pick number 52 averages only about 23% of the games of a number 1 pick.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:00 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Jar thats a narrow veiw

I wonder how many games Fisher will play or Betts or Aaron Davey or even Deluca or Bryan .

There are players like Miller - Medhurst - Schinder all taken past 52


there are lots of players taken after 52 who turn out to good serviceable players and if we are building for the future we could have taken a punt on youth with pick 52

Pick 52 ended up being pick 51 by the way - Better run the stats on that one

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I'd have thought Rod Jameson played more games than Bulluss Jars...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:12 am 
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Robert Walls
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Well personally (after wading through these 5 pages) I reckon that Pagan is the best man for coaching us, and that getting McLaren and Saddington was a worthwhile exercise given how little we had to give up for them. Scanning these pages though, it seems that I am a lone voice in the wilderness :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Deano Supremo wrote:
I'd have thought Rod Jameson played more games than Bulluss Jars...


nope, that's games played after being picked up at pick 52 :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:18 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Jar thats a narrow veiw



There is no 'view'.

It's just facts, people asked about pick 52 and I gave the facts. :roll:

The facts are that you are much less likely to get a good player with late picks.

FACTS!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:20 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Jarusa wrote:
Deano Supremo wrote:
I'd have thought Rod Jameson played more games than Bulluss Jars...


nope, that's games played after being picked up at pick 52 :wink:


So was Jameson redrafted?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Jar thats a narrow veiw

I wonder how many games Fisher will play or Betts or Aaron Davey or even Deluca or Bryan .

There are players like Miller - Medhurst - Schinder all taken past 52


there are lots of players taken after 52 who turn out to good serviceable players and if we are building for the future we could have taken a punt on youth with pick 52

Pick 52 ended up being pick 51 by the way - Better run the stats on that one


Sydney......Read my Lips..... CFC chose not to use pick 52 for a number of reasons, some of which related to listed player contracts and another to salary cap issues.

The fact is the fact....get over it. All you are doing is going around in circles like many others.

If anyone out there in computer land has a 100%, genuine 'see all' crystal ball then let us know the future. Otherwise we will just have to wait and see the results as they unfold.

Regards Cazzesman

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Last edited by Cazzesman on Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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