_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

You may well be right. The stats I saw saw definitely had Carlton on the bottom. Depends on who's doing the stats, I suppose.



Not sure if this is true. Rotation in the end is really about legs - to maintain run and pressure during the game and the ensure your best players are on the field with something in their tanks when the whips are out in the end game phase. Really, pre-GF 2005 at least, you wouldn't have held the Swan's midfield up as anywhere near the best in the comp yet they rotated the most - players that played or rotated thru the midfield were Kirk Bolton Williams Goodes Buchanan Crouch Davis Fosdike Schneider Ablett Mathews O'Keefe Dempster. They had a plan which included having the balls to rest their best players during the game. It's well documented that we have interchange players who get about 5 mins game time. This means that when we play Swans we start and finish about two players short.

Perhaps we don't have the most talented midfield but our players have legs like everyone else - at least by rotating more effectively, we can attempt to match other teams in this important aspect of the modern game.

Have to disagree with that - is a terrible kick......hooks his foot as though he's crossing the ball in.

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

AFL Prospectus (Champion Data): "In keeping with other dual premiership coaches, Pagan used the bench conservatively with the Blues registering the third lowest interchange moves of any side in 2005, averaging 34 per game"

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

..in my opinion, it goes like this.. ..the list is terrible, and folks thinking it will improve in a couple/few years are kidding themselves.. ..lookit Lance.. ..i freely admit i'm a fan, but he's better as a CHF.. ..he's used down back to guide things, and thats only cos the defence is so shitty.. ..i'd turn McClaren into a CHB, since some folks are of the mind to turn an existing seasoned player into one.. ..he at least knows how to use his body, treat every marking option as a rucking contest, and at least prevent the opponents CHF from taking marks.. ..it's more than Lance will do.. ..or try the same with Setanta, since he's meant to be such an athlete.. ..either way we've currently got no true CHB, nor FB for that matter.. ..so our defence is shot before we begin.. ..we're plugging the hole with Lance, a player that's a better forward, which we're paying big bucks for,, and in all honestly hasn't many more years left in him.. ..why we persist in playing such an expensive player out of position astounds me..

..so, where's this big improvement going to come from in a few years..?.. ..the current list's big players will be halved in a few years.. ..Lance, Kouta, Lappin, French.. ..we've no developing ruckman to replace French with.. ..Lance is hogging CHb so that's not getting developed either.. ..Kouta prolly won't get as rested as he needs to in the midfield, so expect burnout.. ..and again, he's taking onfield time away froma youngster that needs it in the guts.. ..forget resting him in the forward, his days as one are over.. ..and Lappin.. ..well, in my opinion he's the best player we have on our list.. ..he's great forward or back, last seasons he underperformed at times, but overall his time with us has been great value.. ..but he's about 30 if i recall correctly, so he's another edging into final years..

..say what you will about those players but in a few years we're going to miss them, so whatever progress we've made up until then should expect a setback/reversal in fortune..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I remember being a rap for Stephen Kenna a few years ago

BKB,

I can't understand why people don't think Saddington will be a worthy addition to the CFC backline. He 26 and played 142 AFL games. He's 194cm and 93kg. He's mobile, can take a mark and has decent skills.

A Swans recruiter told me on Draft day that if Saddo had been fit in 2005 he would have been in their best 25 to be picked for the GF team. That's not a bad wrap.

Saddo wanted a change and to come back to Melb. The Swans wanted to free up some money in their cap after the GF win. CFC were never going to use pick 52 so it was a generous swap IMHO.

It has been 18 months since the reco and the knee structure is said to be good as gold. The Cyst he had removed recently was a minor hiccup and had nothing to do with ligaments or cartilage.

He looked composed, experienced and reliable down back in the VFL in just half a game. Give him a solid 4 weeks on the track and a few VFL games under his belt and he will be back in the Seniors very quickly.

If he can hold down a key back position it will do a number things.

1. It will free up Lance down back to create more or to be pushed forward as required.
2. Give Kennedy Hartlett, Bower and Edwards time to settle in and grow in size and strength.
3. Provide valuable assistance and experience to T-Bird.

The Blues were never going to use pick 52 so if CFC can get 2-3 seasons out of Saddo while the young big guys learn their trade then the swap has worked. Time will tell.

Some may say he is keeping the young kids out of the Seniors but try looking at it another way........If the kids show they are good enough in the VFL they will get a look in later in the year.

I always worry that if some kids get it tooooo easy toooo early then they forget how hard they need to keep working to succeed over a long period. If you listened to Barry Mitchell on Saturday you will know that he reminded a few of this fact. Nothing should come easy in the AFL for an 18/19 year old. The rug can be quickly pulled from under and many a big head has banged itself on the door jam on the way out.

A two year apprenticeship in the VFL for an 18/19 year old KPP should not to be seen as a hindrance. It can only help to forge a 10 year career.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

SB - the point is BV may well be right - so what? At this point what damage is happening? Do you really expect us to do anything other than rebuild? Are you unhappy with the recruitment - Yes yes saddo and Mclaren are big bees - destroying the list aren't they.

I am extremely happy with Tex, Murphy, Russell, Hartlett, Kennedy, Edwards, Bower, Flint, Jackson, Smith, the two irish Lads, Raso and Batson.
Toss in Stevens, Saddo, Mclaren, McGrath, French, DeLuca Bryan and Scotland anmd I'm very happy.

We are not there yet but the list grows stronger every year. Any coach you want will still need to wait three years for the lads to develop. In the meantime he'll need to take the heat of impatient people who want instant karma - oh and SB go read some poetry - you'll find some brilliant minds at work who understood reality more than you ever will.

and if denis is the man (as i still suspect) then we have the right coach woith the kids as they develop. if not, as i said elswhere - we are still building a great list. We still need to be patient.

Who knows perhaps Denis is assembling something some young gun will waltz into and win a flag or two with, take all the glory and forget the people who assembled the list in the first place - wouldn't be the first time now would it?

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

..patience i dig, i'm of the opinion that we're more than a few years away from becoming a great club.. ..lookit Saints/Cats/Eagles.. ..all better clubs, and they're still trying to find their way in the finals.. ..Port took a few cracks at it to finally get there.. ..we won't be thereabouts in a few years, and if we are we'll be bundled out in first week of finals like the Dee's were last year.. ..and that's their second year in the finals..

.. ..if Saddo comes good, that'll be great.. ..if Livo shines i'll dance a jig.. ..the main problem with alot of our list, is that there's just far too many if's on it..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Italian Blue.. if you stick around abit longer youll be swallowing every word i say....

Look.. were caught between playing for the future and short term fixes.
Ive given examples.
The Cats did a terrific job with a lot of young kids... they tried recruiting has beens and theyre no longer at the club.. Mitchell whatever his name was from the West Coast.
You cant pull the wool over anyones eyes anymore... Most of our recruits from other clubs have been duds because they were just that at the other club.
If Saddington was ok the Swans would have kept him.
If Chambers could find the ball the WC would have kept him...
If Dylan McLaren was any good the Lions would have kept him...

In the meantime were filling our list with average footballers from other clubs with 2 year contracts and stuck with them.

If theyre no good.. we shouldnt think we will turn them around... if we could turn players around Prenda would be a star!!!..(as well as a few others)

Draft is where its at!!.. and if you can snag a top liner ,,,,you do that!!!.

the rest???

For now...

Forget about them!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

let's just remember we are talking opinions here not facts.

In another's opinion Geelong traded White while their kids developed. they also traded for Ottens to fill a specific hole.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Damn straight. You'd think we lost all four practice matches by 99 points the way most of this thread reads. Last I checked we won two from four and lost one to the evetually preseason champs after leading for a large portion of the game.

I was under the impression Brisbane tried to keep McLaren

Synbad:
They wanted him on a reduced salary.

Our recruitment system is fine, we're not hampering younger players and sacrificing draft picks to acquire recycled hacks anymore.

Pagan got the stop gaps and now he's stocking up on quality youngsters and the stop gaps are becoming some depth.

It's called a plan. What's yours?

sshhhhh... .don't ruin the story with the facts... he's on a roll!

_________________
Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Danny- Denis Pagan gets out coached almost every time he puts the side on the paddock. It is because he cannot counter act opposition moves . when williams decided to play keepings off the other week he didn't have a clue what to do. If denis is having so much trouble on game day who is to say that his development technics are not out dated - who is to say his track training is not out dated

We beat a seriously under manned West Coast last Week and a side that finished off well last year but lacks height .

We will get pumped round 1 and probably round 2 depending on wether the Freo boys are backing connolly or not.

Danny look at the development - Waite should be tearing the comp apart. Houlihan over a 100 games and still struggles to hold a midfeild role. Fevola over 100 games and still everyone is waiting for his eliteness to appear.

Simpson- Bentick and Carrazzo all still bit part players .


The competition has changed no longer can a player do long apprenticeships - they have to develop quickly and by the time they are 22,23,24 they have got to be at the top of their game or very close to it.

Take off the Navy Blue glasses and look around look what other clubs are doing.

Synbad and BV are right

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

This is also why the Crows picked up Wayne Carey

A specific-hole filling specialist.

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Really getting sick of doing this, last one for the month I hope.

Who is to say that some of the players cannot follow out instructions because they're not good enough - who is to say we just didn't have our heart in it that game - who is to say that it wasn't an abberation - who is to say we are systematically training our players from their weaker skills as a group to their better - who is to say you just wasted a whole paragraph highlighting your ever-perpetuating and pessimistic imagination?


I thought pace was our issue? We just beat one of the quicker teams in the comp because we got to the contest first and got their in numbers and didn't just fly at the ball like geese. Next.


Seeing as how Freo's defense isn't that flash it looks to me like that match will be a shoot out and a test of endurance, I think we have the pace and players to rebound from their forward line. Lance should play forward in that game.

As for Melbourne, I think we can match up well on them too - and that's what it's about. Exploiting weaknesses, ours are starting to shrink and as a result, our ability to exploit the oppositions are starting to grow.


Waite is all set to tear the competition apart, he's been building match fitness, as has Fevola - their 'eliteness' is only held back by their mindset, let's hope that changes. Houlihan has played a midfield role less than a handful of times prior to the pre-season and he looks to have developed the tank for it. I think he will surprise you.


All signs point to the first two pushing past that point this season and Carrots is most certainly not, only faded last season from being on the park and doing so damn much in all the games. Bentick is 20-21, Simpson 22, Carrots 21-22. I can actually bother to check for you if you like.


Your opinion of the competition has changed, you're basing everything on Judd. Ball and Hodge only came into their own last year and Cooney is still going. You should merely expect them to be competent players at 21-22 unless they went top 5 in the draft, in which case you expect them to really be making a name for themselves.

It's Walker's year to shine.

You give KPPs another year because they have to build more muscle and larger bodies require longer adaptation in terms of coordination (it's to do with strength over joint angles and making use of the changes this growth gives you, which is quite rapid compared to what a 'wild' human would be experiencing, biomechanics, I don't think you'd understand). Ruckman you give another 2 (1 more than KPP).

This year is also Waite's year.


I did, and I don't see much wrong with the direction we're pushing in and we're hardly behind schedule.


Sometimes BV, but you must be wearing glasses that have had the lenses painted black if you think Synbad's words hold truth. Fear-mongerer (not a very good one though).

And I'm done.

Okay lets take Geelong - thompson stated this summer he thought finally this year and next year geelong was ready because their average age would be greater than the majority of teams they would meet - not his coaching, not their drafting, simply age.

Adelaide has at least 6 top shelf players thirty or over - funny how that helps them and their kids. Again not coaching, not new methods, age.


What have we got. We have a young list. plain and simple. i expect improvement in that young list, i do not expect miracles, not expecting them I am not disappointed when they do not come.

See SB I, too,l ive in reality, unbaised, just watching and evaluating. I agree their are things Pagan can do better and there are things he cannot do much about, like the ageing process.

I do not think he is evil, harmful, the next bubonic plague or the second coming ( dangerous because when people expect too much its funny how they quickly call for their heads!)

You might live in a biased land of quick and easy solutiuons - sack coach world is rosy again. That's not reality just your perception. beware touting yourself as the herald of reality, you're not, you're just another with an opinion, no better, no worse.

Go Blues!

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I partly agree with all of you.

The ruckman position is an interesting one as French is 30 and can't go forever.I would of been happy if we gave Deluca,Batson and Bryan more time.McLaren seems like a real goer but lacks skill and is only a second string ruckman.In defence of the Blues he was probably the best choice in the recycled draft, but because he is seen as the second string ruckman does that reduce the effective development of the three above mentioned ruckman.

Saddington may end up great value for the blues but serious knee problems even by today's medical standards reduce a player's effectivness.
We could of pick Ryan Jackson at pick 52 then picked another rookie who could become a regular for far much longer than Saddington so there are arguments for both sides.

Given are plight at the moment I would punt on youth at every opportunity given that we had to recruit recycled guys when we copped are draft penalties a few years back

As Synbad said if a player is not good enough to succeed at one club he is unlikely to succeed at another because the same deficincies crop up.There are exceptions to this rule but they are few and far between.Have a look at the posts in roughly August on this subject.You cannot argue the fact that overall these recruits have been a failure and the players still on our list from that recruiting time have doubts on them(Teague,Scotland,Bannister,Deluca,Chambers,Longmuir) The only guy who I think will stay at the club definitely in 2007 is McGrath who despite poor decision making skills can tag a dangerous player out of a game (Buckley second half round 20)