Okay, I think we are getting close to agreeing here - it might take more than 6 weeks but thats fine, lets aim to make him a gun CHB, he has the size and speed, the rest can be taught, (hopefully).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

id play him in the firsts and i definitely wouldnt play him in his comfort zone.

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na not in the firsts 6 weeks of beltings and he'd be a wreck. I still think we'll never see the footballer Livo could have been because of the club's decision to make him a defender, a defender nothing but a defender.

We are not robots, we are people.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

[quote="Synbad"]I also used to like a band called 'Sweet'.. i dont anymore....

Doesn't your radio pick up Gold 104 Synbad ? Because if it did, I'm sure you'd admit that ''Fox on the Run'', ''Ballroom Blitz'' and ''Love is Like Oxygen'' are rock classics that stand the test of time.
So what do you listen to these days Synbad ? Are you desperately trying to show how young and groovy you are by pretending to like Hip Hop, House Music, Psy Trance, Techno, Indie Rock, Nu Metal, Skip Hop, Acid House or FCR (fake chick rock) ? Or have you embraced the onset of middle age and switched to Magic 693 where they only play ''the songs that are too old and daggy for even Gold 104 to play'' ?

Neuvo industrial metal is what im into now... im very progressive...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Tool.

fox on the run 'foxie on the ru - un!' gee brings to mind a certain red-haired lass, a white dress and the light just right... Ah the 70's were grand days eh! And not just for the damn flags we won either!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

JuzzCarlton wrote ''Tool.''

Like you JuzzCarlton I also enjoy Tool's uncompromising brand of heavy guitar rock.
Tool flower' rocks !

Me 3

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

What's wrong with having a monster wingman?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Not a priority when you dont have a spine....

Thats whats wrong..!!!!

Its a cop out..

See???

Thats why i dont get some people....
Lala Land....

No spine but they want a monster wingman....

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no thats not what anyone has said or implied, But is Waite a KP? - the answer to that questiuon (and the one we are discussing) does not have any relevance on wether someone thinks we need a spine or not.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Is Thornton a KP.. is Saddington??... is Livo???.. is Lance????

Is Cornes???
Is McGuire?
Is Setanta???
Is Hudgton??
Is Rivers?
Is Miller?
Is Leo Barry???

I think its very relevant.....

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Waite will not get a run at CHB this year. Lance has already been told that that's where he will be playing.

And Thornton will be holding down full back..

This is not my opinion but what has come out of one of those two players mouths..

That leave's Saddington with a back flank..

Maybe we could have Waite on the other back flank and have a BIG half back line..Waite would provide plenty of run of the backline that's for sure, and Maybe Saddo can do the same...

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

If Saddington isnt being considered for CHB.. and i dont think he is one...Livo isnt going to play at FB and wont be considered this year...
Waite is a HFF....
Walker is a tagger....

What the hell is going on???
Why bother with Saddington when someone that used to be in the Brissy heirarchy told me last night that Luke Power was GONE!!!.. they didnt believe he would stay... and his father just about fainted when Luke told him he would stay...

The point is why didnt we chase Luke Power alot harder when everyone at Brisbane was convinced he was gone????

And instead bothered about an undersized ruckman ..(another one0.. and a guy who cant play KP and has bad knees???

Whats going on at this club?????

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I would say that Power would easily be worth as much as McLaren and Saddington combined...I think that is what is going on..Amongst other things.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Yes but McLaren and Saddo.. (i like them as characters ) will not maKe a difference for Murphy and Walker etc when those kinds of players get to 22 years old..as they wpnt be there... and we have a void there.

We dont need more average footballers we have enough of those..

We need footballers that will make a difference to what we have over the next 5 years.

Power brings a winners edge.. and a player with the ability to help stevens run a young midfield .

The other two dont bring anything to the club.

That mentality just makes it harder!!!

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Luke Power in a Carlton jumper would have done exactly that. Stevens and Power in the middle ooze class and that winning edge.

Salary Cap and a tight purse string may have had something to do with the fact we did not snag him (IMO), or he didn't like the option of going to Carlton (poor soul if that was the case).

But he's not. there.wh knows if Carlton tried hard enough or not? Not me!

Poor old (young) Waite, has only got 10 years or less left in him.

He's a freak, but still has a lot of improvement in him yet; especially with his kicking (for goal in particular).

Waite is big enough to play CHB. No question about that. Does he have the know how to at present? That's the question.

You have to also consider that after the Irish series, he was injured, and hasn't had the ideal preparation for this season. I haven't read anyone mention it, and I think it's an important point.

When he's fit, he can play anywhere. Where is he needed?

I'd love to see him in the middle or as a monster wingman. That's my preference.

I think what Synbad is referring to is the fact that we need our spine stronger before we look at luxuries like that. He's 6'4" and getting more muscle on year by year.

He is earmarked by the football community (including Sheedy) as one of the best footballers going around....and here's TC Carlton supporters wandering if he's good enough.

Think about where we need him most first, put him there ans see how he goes over 5-6 weeks. If he goes back we'll miss him in the HF line, if he plays forward we'll miss him on the wing....etc.

He is one really bright light fromour list of young players, along with Tex, Fish, Kennedy, Murph....

All points above stand correct, bar the negatives that suggest one can't do this and that. Livo holds the key as to the make up of the backline. Then the question arises is Livo a backman or a forward? Another young fellow who has had his reputation and credentials (as a fast leading forward when recruited) "wrecked". But he's another one who offers a lot for the future of Carlton.

We are starting to build a team full of opportunity, flexibility and experience.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

synbad scatter gun logic means you shoot everyhting full of holes and nothing gets fixed. You know as well as i do we are seeking to address the deficiencies without rushing headlong. Power would have been nice but we'd still be without a spine

or did you want Power then recruit Kennedy and Clarke say and forget Murphy?

Yes we need to develop a spine - I thought thats why we recruited Hartlett Bower Edwards Setanta Kennedy Raso Flint - kids all developing.

Chuck in T-Bird, Fev, Lance (yeah I know but forget the arm flapping for that one) Livo, Waite, and we are trying to address the list slowly and carefully using kids that we will develop to fill our needs.

Why suddenly the panic? The sky is not falling, it is being repaired. slowly, carefully and hopefully without any knee jerk reactions.

That does not mean (before you start ) we do nothing, we should question, we should seek change but logically, lets not use an argument for development, give reasons why we are doing things a certain way and then one summer chuck that all out and say we need a clean slate - I know what you did last summer, you defended Pagan, Collo, the Board, the planning etc, so by all means seek change, seek better results, seek success but don;t go black and whiting everything. everything does not work nor is nothing working.

Its between the two. How close to one or the other history will judge.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Power has knocked us back twice. IF the Brions were worried about losing him I suspect it would have been to another Vic club.

I suspect that Power's decision to stay in Queensland was reached after much soul-searching, a bit like Lappo a couple of years ago when he had the chance to go to the Tiges for more money. Pagan and others were convinced at the time that we had lost skinny. Same again for Murphy, who did not know whether he would take up father-son with the Brions or nominate for the draft until well after last season ended.