Maybe its just the usual preseason optimism but I can see the winds of change down at Carlton. I have always said it would be a 5 year process to turn the ship around and this year will be our fourth year so its next year that will be the real acid test. We are not a finals team yet and there is no point deluding ourselves that we will be competative in every game but we will improve. Continual improvement across the board but especially in players such as Thornton, Fisher, Mcgrath, Fevola, Scotland, Bentick et al. leaves me optimistic that all the "Blue Skies" talk by the club is not just meaningless propaganda. We have the second best coach in the AFL (behind lethal) and I for one have the utmost faith in him but you still need the cattle!

I encourage all blues supporters to get on board and try being positive for a change. Everyone knows that there has been doom and gloom at Optus but things will get better. Criticism is fine but only when its constructive.

sorry Headcutter, its seems Denis's Headstone has already been ordered.

I think we'll see another step forward this year, others want his head. In the end none of us will be happy until we are a powerhouse again. Until then its all dibs and dobs and flapping wings and falling skies and rose coloured glasses and lotds and lots and posters running off to talking stuff and the rest of us twiddling....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

dannyboy.. after 3 and a half years...Denis has a problem.

his problem is if he has failed for 3 and a half years he is suddenly going to sell a message that the playing group will swallow.

there is no belief there in my opinion.

happy to be proven wrong but you dont just believe on the fourth year when you havent till now.



i think denis struggles to communicate his message ...

lets see what happens...



but i doubt we can put up with more floggings...

we cant... the players cant... and i dont believe denis can.



sooner or later something has to give....

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Look, last nights game just reinforced how much I love this club and I can't possibly be negative about something that I adore so much so yes I am with you on this one..I'm always hopeful preseason!! People will say blah blah blah bulldust bulldust bulldust but I say crap on you!! I don't pretend to be someone I'm not...all I am is a fan and I have a loyalty for my club which is unbreakable...call me dumb call me 'smoke and mirrors' I don't give a crap ..I just love them... They are my club I will support them untill the day I die...regardless of ladder position.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Good work HC, i agree, we need to support the boys, especially on game day, the Sexy Squad boys will be there chanting and cheering even if were 100 points down, which i hope we won't be, but even if we are we will chant.

Can you beleive how good Simpson is getting, he always takes the ball puts it under his arm and just goes, its fantastic.

except i do not believe in this 3 and half years crap. have another look at last year's whizz fizz - they understood the message. have a look the year we came 10th, they understood the message.

To me the rteality is that our list was shite so although many were 'getting' his message they were not ones to keep for the long haul. this list has been turned over a lot in three years. Now we have many kids, they'll settle and develop.

Even if Denis in the long run is not the man - and on this i will debate but i understand someone like BV's concerns. - at this point in our rebuilding it does not concern me overly.

take frawley - no please take frawely (Jamacia? No he was pushed!) shit coach, @#$%&! all damage to that group and i rate denis far, far higher than Frawley.

If he isn't the coach to take us to a flag and we'll know i think this year or next - we are still building a fine group of kids who will be disciplined and tough - the rest is just salad dressing mixed to taste.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

if we get smashed three times inside the first twelve games Denis must go...

he must go before the end of the season so whoever comes in has an opportunity to work out who he wants to keep.

i agree with BV.. tactically were least erffective.
I dont think Denis gets the most out of his players as his communication skills arent working.
Last night was a classic example on why Denis isnt making the players play for him... why take Livo and not play him?
Why not rotate the nench players more???
Our players are buggered by 3/4 time and we get smashed...because we have little midfield rotation.
We have kids and were playing a contested brand of footy and have no bodies.
Were not very well skilled but we have a long kicking game.. (to noone taking contested marks)...well if youre skills are limited you will miss targets by more over 50 yards than you will over 30.. (maths)
our setups are wrong!!!... and in many ways non existant.

and while all this has been going on for a few years ... its not about to turn around.

Human nature tells u if you have been doing things that havent been working for years.. you dont have failth in it.

NoT entirely denis fault... he was pushing shit up hill when he got here and Corey was planting seeds in players minds.
We have leaders that arent leaders.

And Denis has been unable to evolve.. hes stll listening to Sweet...
Stuff changes and you have to be abreast of all that to remain at the top.
People dont go to war with hand to hand combat anymore and the short Roman sword...

progress leaves some behind..

those that arent willing to embrace it.. (or unable to)

eg Neanderthals..

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actually synners there is evidence to suggest the Neanderthals were killed by the lack of a challenge not by being unable to react to it.

Now as for Denis, i still say he hasn't had a list until this year and this year's list has far too many kids to expect real damage - what i expect is a real combative bunch for about half a year and the young Bods to tire and we fall away dramatically in the second half.

Next year more sustained efforst all year.

The year after better.

This whole playing group stuff is so easy to lose your head in but you know what fixes that? Winning. The guys need to win.

And I agree with you about leadership, see all good coaches need good leaders, trench type leaders, inspirational leaders, so on... We have to develop them. Without them coaches will always struggle, the leaders are the focus on the field, the lens through which the coach focuses his message. Denis lacks this lens.

Can denis win a flag at Carlton? I really do not know but I think we ar ebuilding a pretty impressiove list (priority 1) I still remember how we played last summer and if that is seen this year in the home and away that means were are playing cohesively (priority 2) and for the tactical side Denis keeps it simple - too simple is too early to call in my books given the lack of a list to work with. So I am happy to watch him this year and next.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I believe up to 6 of the squad got so little game time they were given a game in the Bullants today. While most of the senior players are given no or minimal breaks. And we were the worst performed side in time on last year.

I find it positive that in our pre-season matches the 3 vice-captains have really been putting in and demonstrating their leadership. Captaincy after Kouta will obviously go to the player who demonstrates the best all round credentials. Denis can only dangle the carrot of regular senior selection across the list and reward those who are up to the task and will be in the future.

Denis did say that the game was a full dress rehearsal for the first game of the season. Probably answers some of your questions.

The Neanderthal question too???

S his dress rehearsal is to take a few players and not rotate???

Were going to get slaughtered again!!!

Its not 1999... its 2006.

The game is much faster now...

Players need a rest ...

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yes and last summer denis rotated tons and duisguised the essential lacking of the list, come smaller benches and this lacking was exposed week after week. He is not afraid to use the bench but perhaps he wishes to use it with those that he thinks will add.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I reckon (and i dont know much about footy ) that we use the bench more poorly than any other club ...... our midfield rotations suck!!!.. and we get swamped as matches go on...

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Wasn't Kouta on the ground more than any player last year. At 32!!! Every other team rotates their midfielders.

But you want us to get slaughtered, that is how we get the draft picks!!!!

chicken egg stuff - do we rotate poorly because we use the list poorly or does a poor list force us to rotate less? I'll say it again, go back to last summer and watch the whizz fizz we rotated a million miles an hour so that's not the reason so what is?

Is denis actually planning ahead rather than simply wanting to rotate fast, keep fresh legs and win one or two more games or control the damege of one or two more games - seems maybe you want Brittain back - master of disguise.

I like knowing where we are at.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

and every argument you use now against Denis is the contrary argument to every that you use for him.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

jbee , you seriously , overwhelmingly, convincingly illustrate youre a pea brain.

You dont have to be slaughtered to develop players and get draft picks wen you have a list is thin as ours... la la boy...

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Of course he does... but then again he has a 20% winning record since he joined us.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.