Are cutting the list too deep by SOS, and selecting line coach, Bolton as Head Coach, learnings from the past? I think so.

We are at a different stage than back in 2015.

We will not need to cut the list other than the natural attrition of aging players, over 30, Saad, Gov, Acres, Williams, Fog, Boyd...

and

We dont need to hit the Draft for the next 5 years to regroup, given we have in our keeping, 20 Under 23yo players, including Top 3 picks Jagga (Mid) Dean (KPD), Walker (Mid) & McHattun (Modern Ruck) ...did I mention O'Farrell (KPD), Carroll (wing), Lord (Mid), Ison, Moir Byrne....

and

A new modern day coach (we probably already have short listed).

Thins arent as DIM as they SIM.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Good point Cru. It is all about timing from here. There's a game on in 6 hours, so it doesnt have to be NOW, and NOW could be in a week or two or three or...we and the whole footy world kknow hes a dead man walking.


Vossy may be part of the solution. He may agree to resign. Who knows? He may decide to help develop and change the fortunes and image of the team/ club.

The Elijah thing is still warm. Timing is everything.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

@#$%&! that, Bondi. They’re laughing at us.

What’s to be gained in rebuilding a weak & feeble house?

They have to show some @#$%&! fortitude. Front and centre, the four of them, ‘we got this wrong’.

The captain couldn’t lead a rocking horse, so we’re sending him for the surgeries & recuperation he needs.

The vice captain is in self-preservation mode, so we’re sending home to the hot spas. We’ve got a mad cauliflower to take his spot. If he wants back in, he has to go through him.

The full forward is a milk-drinking hypochondriac, so we’re sending him home to mum. If he wants to play, he has to find the stones to play in the ruck.

The coach has no friends. We’ll try every last one of the remaining ELEVEN before the year ends.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

You fight, or you @#$%&! off.

If it’s the latter, we’ll find somewhere else for you. But, we need to know now.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

No it is not, that is your belief among others wild ones, otherwise state sources they only left because of Voss.
Maybe they seen the writing on the walls with our list, like a lot of other people in the AFL have.

I don't disagree with us having a loser mentality for years, constant change just makes sure of it.

I also agree that standards and success are set off field, but when players can't deliver then what?
Do you just keep blaming coaches?
You really need to stop thinking our players are of no fault in this.
When you change coaches us much as we have and the some of the same players stay and the rot continues, can't you see who is leading it?
I know you struggle with leadership, you write about it every day, but I guess that is just because you are not a leader so you don't understand.
Good leaders don't need to be shown the way, that is why they are leaders.
Voss is a good leader as you just stated, he was a triple premiership captain, if your thoughts are that our player need to learn or be steered by good leaders then he is one of the best to be mentored by.
Weather he can coach or not is none the less, but as a football leader playing for Carlton they have that mentor.
Maybe they are not the leaders you seem to think they are, not everyone can be made a leader.
One of our leaders, Weitering just came out and said he goes 'insular' when the defence is being bombarded.
Incase you haven't worked it out, that is not a leadership trait, leaders fight, leaders make others follow through actions and inspiration.
Going 'insular' and becoming flat is not leadership talk.
All the information is out there, you just have to want to see it Surrey.

I think there needs to be a 'new voice' for the players, as they say

What I'm not clear on is what impact have the new / recently appointed assistant coaches had?
The change in assistant coaches was pumped up a lot by the club - 'vossy is getting the support he needs to succeed'.

But have they had a significantly positive impact on the playing group?
If we sack Voss now but keep the same assistants for the rest of the year while they search for jobs, will that change the energy around the club?

And who would get the best lift out of the players?
Josh Fraser?
Simpson?
Patch Adams?

If it's Hansen then I don't think it will bode well

Don't or can't?
Players can't create space if they don't run, this has already been proven that we don't in second halves.
The rest is you just looking to blame someone other than the players.

And facts aren't 'nonsense', they are facts.

Exactly.

100% spot on.
Adding to that though, we have Lucas Koutoufides in 2028 and more to come.

@#$%&! me that's depressing reading about our draft options, unless the cards fall exactly right, we are being massively screwed again by the AFL and our future ability to climb the ladder is being ripped out form underneath us.

Likely by next season we will have burnt 4 first rounders on two good players, with very little other quality being able to be picked up in the same two years of draft.

That is the most logical approach.
I think Voss is done but for no other reason than we need to make a change to show we are trying to do something.
Some players need to pull their fingers out and some need to be moved on, no matter who they are.

A few things were at play after 2023:

We thought the SOS draftees started to hit their straps (without Charlie firing a shot in the 3 Finals), with a lot of players banged up because we took the hardest road to win a Flag from outside the top 4.

The return of injury prone players (from disrupted preseason/season) Marchbank, Martin, Gov, Cuningham, Williams (who was injured vs Bris Final) may have finally got themselves fit for purpose, and over their injuries under Russell's supervision

Assumed only deficiency fixed Austin fixed the wing deficiency with the inclusions of Acres, Hollands.

Football Dept thought the list is in a good spot for a tilt for the Flag. ie No Gaps. See Sydney Blue for his thoughts

Keep front ending senior players for salary relief down the track to top up with FA star (Messiah) where needed.

End of 2023 Top up with kids before the Tasmanian compromised Drafts to add to the few kids we had in Hollands Durdin Motlop and Cowan and Draft/Trade taking kids Elijah, Moir, Wilson, Carroll, Lord before compromised Drafts.

Had the money to pay 800K to Houston, but it was a case of Rinse Repeat in 2024 Front load stars create space for future star, blaming injury for our fall away after flag faves mid season, and add more kids before Compromised Drafts Smith, O'Farrell, Ben Campo, Lucas Campo, Charleson, Carroll...White, Young and Evans.

Rinse Repeat in 2025 Front load stars create cap space for future star and add kids before Compromised Drafts: Dean, Byrne, Ison, and replace Reidy for TDK, Dean for SOS, and Hayward and Ainsworth for Charlie. Florent was the other experienced middle of the road player.

We overrated the list at the end of 2023, and not spending/ trading on adding to best 23.

Now we that $1M+ cap space we had created by going for kids instead of Houston, plus the budgeted TDK $1.1M, SOS $660K, plus Charlies $1M, Govs $600K, plus Docs $700K, plus Fantasia's $450K plus others, and only spend on Reidy 300 Florent 500, Hayward 600, Ainsworth 600, Elijah 250, Chesser 250 plus kids, leaving us with a surplus and wasted opportunity of 5.7M minus 3M new players incl kids...$2.5M surplus to, you guessed it, front load stars...which we might benefit from later on if its not too late.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Like I said I trust your numbers and this just further highlights us not being able to attract A grade talent during those years when we were an attractive option.
I agree we overrated the list, but at the time there was good reason too.
If we had Cody and Harry coming through our ranks back in 2023 like the Lions and Collingwood had we'd be singing a different story now.
We would've added A grade kids for nothing.

What you're saying surrey it is a case of the Tail wagging the dog, hence some of the frustrations from supporters. He just isnt hard enough, honest enough with his leaders and stars. I think there's something in that, given what we have witnessed since midway 2024.

But, youre being a bit condescending towards sidex's surrey. He's making a valid point, for good discussion, because the problem isnt singular as you may think, and want everyone to agree with, and just because it doesnt fit your narrative, youre just blowing it away with ..was that Vietnamese when you said "Blame, blame, blameu, point, point, point"? No need for that. Everyone wants a better Carlton and looking for cues and clues.

There's weight in everyone's point. How much? Ask GOD.

Please be a bit more respectful

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think there's validity with this.

I would add that the AFL rule changes midway through the season didnt help Voss or Austin's cause, let alone Carltons. We all noticed a huge change in our game when they were bought in as a reaction to the squeeky wheel Damien Hardwick.

The new ruck rules don't favour what we have in the ruck anymore.

There's a lot of moving parts, and in one way or another, whilst we are all trying to put our finger on the problem, we are blaming, blaming, finger pointing, here. there, everywhere.

Every point is valid, and is well argued, but it's not one thing in isolation, ie Voss.

Personally, Ive changed my position and I do blame a lot on Voss, in particular, discipline (like you say), not moving with the times and speed of the game, but also I lay blame on the Football Dept at the end of 2023 and 2024, and the AFL's jumping at shadows wrecking our game, by deciding what type of ruck they want to succeed (I'd take them to court if I was a lumbering ruckman in a class action).

A lot of things have gone against us. That's life. We have to adjust, and get things right.

Voss is gone. I dont think it will take much to turn this around nect year, and certainly by 2028, IF we fix things and target the right players and coach....and get them!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I agree with the bit about Football Bosses and coaches roles in leadership, but I will not accept the argument or the standards that our currrent leaders dont have a leadership role, or their leadership roles has to be led by the football bosses and coach. That's a cop out.

Clarkson was given all the credit for the great Hawks teams. His first Game plan that got him the job (the Ship steering wheel) was a failure. Then there was his 2nd game plan, an off shoort of the ship's wheel, aka the web, where they zoned to fill holes which surprised opposition teams till they worked out how to run through it with handball and that was dumped. He nearly got the boot, but he was surrounded by leaders , born leaders who reached 22-23 yo and forced standards on their team mates. Mitchell, Lweis, Roughead were always the onfield coaches and change plans onfield. They were the ones who won the flags for the hwaks. Uncompromising.

Leaders are born leaders or are they are pretend leaders because of their football ability. Leasders are enforcers, they stick up for their teammates and given direction in a forceful manner, as a matter of urgency in a game governed by time and are uncompromising on standards. Cripps and weitering have failed to show leadership with their voice, body language and direction. Blind Freddy can see that. Leaders make demands of their team mates, to lift them, and demand they lift in the trenches when the going gets tough, to point out failures and half hearted efforts. That's how football teams work. That's what leaders are.

I cant see why you would let ours off. They are nothing like Mitchell Roughead and Lewis. We need real leaders. Cripps like Judd always led with actions. They were magnificent players but their teams failed.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I have no idea of the answers to the problem, and to be honest my care factor has fallen off the cliff, but if the Team and Coach is No Good, why has Carlton led at 1/2 time in all 8 games?

Carlton FC's Half-Time Performance in 2026
Half-Time Leads
Total Games Played: 8
Half-Time Leads: 8
Carlton FC has led at half time in all 8 of their games during the 2026 season.


We are not getting blown away from the get-go like Essendon*, Richmond and West Coast have many times.

Teams with no talent, poor planning and a rubbish Coach don't lead every team at half time..........

I got nuthin'.

Don't bother to reply.....................I'm at the bottom of the cliff wandering off into the sunset.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

Apart from the current and ex AFL Commissioners, who is laughing at us?

There's a lot of ways we can fight but it has to be a fight to improve not implode.

First things first.

1, Tonight's game.
2. Will we make Finals? Honestly.
3. Are we going to appeal the new Draft rules? Depends on 4.
4. Tank or not to tank? To our benefit.

Personally, I agree with your suggestions to put senior players on ice and find out more about our playing group.

The footy world will know we are tanking but they will also see signs of good players in different positions.

15 games to go before Finals. We have plenty of time and will give blocks of games to Wilson, Ison, Moir, Lord, O'Keefe hopefully Charleson and Ben Campo too, perhaps see Byrne later in season again. We may see players in different roles.

Let whoever laugh for the next month, then that will all be in the past, just like the Elijah saga will be....till Vossy responds after he finishes coaching (if he hasn't had an offer to work with the AFL).

We bottom out, knowing we will get Van Hattem ( amobile ruck we lost) and Walker (a mid to add to Jagga and walsh) with our first 2 picks. A future coach will know this too, as will prospective players we have targeted and most likely have been courting for a year or two.

Lets work on creating a good story to tell. I'm sure the spot light is on our Leaders to lift and I'm sure the media will blame Vossy's game plan for mush of our problems when they discuss what the new coach can change our fortunes. I think that will happen because we do have a lot going for us compared to 2015, when Juddy retired.

We have a solid group of players who will be with us for 4-5 years (except those over 29yo) Weiters (FB), McKay and quality kids, who have a few games under their belt: Dean, O'Farrell, Cowan, Ollie, Jagga, Carroll, Wilson, Lord, O'Keefe .. and a few potential stars in Ison and Moir.

Without our over 30's we are a new up and coming team, with no unreasonable expectations and a new game the new coach is itching to implement. New coach has Hawks and Dees as proof things can turn around very quickly. Its easy to show improvement when you end up bottom of the ladder (by tanking)

We need a leader. Coach may decide that. Who will stand out? Who will that be? I think it will be Walsh leading his own team.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Stop feeling sorry for the AFL. They made the new rules. We made our bed.

Come November it could read we have gained 2 1sts on Jagga, 2 1sts on Dean, and 2 1sts on Walker and Van Hattem....or

pick 9, pick 11, pick 14, pick 16, pick 1 and pick 18 (assume we are spoon and swans win Flag) for 4 Draftees going at Pick 3, Pick 3, Pick 2, Pick 3.

I think that's something to look forward. Changing our fortunes is a good thing, whilst working with the AFL's new rules.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

15 games to go . How many would we have to win to make the 10 ? just askin" .

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All my dangerous friends