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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 2:26 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I couldn't deal with Jamie Elliott in a Carlton jumper

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 2:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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CK95 wrote:
I couldn't deal with Jamie Elliott in a Carlton jumper

60 goals in a season could sway me.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 2:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Effes wrote:
Mitch Cleary
@cleary_mitch

Carlton has asked the question of Collingwood free agent Jamie Elliott who is also considering strong interest from Gold Coast.
Any Blues move for Elliott would not offset the compensation for Tom De Koning given the size of TDK’s St Kilda deal
@7NewsMelbourne @7AFL

Great news.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 3:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Drewgirl wrote:
So due to size of TDK contract, why cant they give us an extra pick then? Oscar allen is giving WC pick 2 for goodness sakes.


Great point DG and truly valid. This is where the pick allocation has flaws. The AFL should be allocating according to contract(s) and not finishing position. Just another wrong solution.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 3:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Boys wrote:
CK95 wrote:
I couldn't deal with Jamie Elliott in a Carlton jumper

60 goals in a season could sway me.


I'd settle for 40 and leadership


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 3:43 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Interesting to see another premiership won by a team with 'mediocre' rucks. Rule changes may favour TDK next year and beyond but history suggests don't overspend/overinvest on rucks.

Trading has been a key part of Brisbane's success (along with father/son and academy luck). The trouble with the Melbourne clubs is that when interstate talent wants to return to Victoria it gets 'diluted' amongst a bigger pool of teams.

One of the other keys for Brisbane was nailing the picks in the 15-30 range (compare that to Silvagni, particularly his record when it comes to smalls).

Lohmann pick 20
Zac Bailey pick 15
Darcy Wilmot pick 16
Brandon Starcevich pick 18
Logan Morris pick 31

Too often Carlton picks poorly in this window and/or doesn't have any picks in this window to seriously build quality depth in the list.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 3:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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That lasted long

Elliott stays a Pie, re-signs at Collingwood

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 3:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Ah well, he would have rediscovered his penchant for injuries at Carlton


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 4:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 4:15 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Effes wrote:
Interesting to see another premiership won by a team with 'mediocre' rucks. Rule changes may favour TDK next year and beyond but history suggests don't overspend/overinvest on rucks.

Trading has been a key part of Brisbane's success (along with father/son and academy luck). The trouble with the Melbourne clubs is that when interstate talent wants to return to Victoria it gets 'diluted' amongst a bigger pool of teams.

One of the other keys for Brisbane was nailing the picks in the 15-30 range (compare that to Silvagni, particularly his record when it comes to smalls).

Lohmann pick 20
Zac Bailey pick 15
Darcy Wilmot pick 16
Brandon Starcevich pick 18
Logan Morris pick 31

Too often Carlton picks poorly in this window and/or doesn't have any picks in this window to seriously build quality depth in the list.


Brisbane's half forwards and wings have wheels and kick goals. They are a perfect balance to the grunt midfield. We just can't get it right.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 4:42 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 8272
Location: Bendigo
Drewgirl wrote:
So due to size of TDK contract, why cant they give us an extra pick then? Oscar allen is giving WC pick 2 for goodness sakes.

Tom’s contract is more than Allen & Draper combined, but the two picks we’ll get for him & SOS are worth less than half the value of the Scum & WCE picks… and that’s just to start. Three bids in the top 5 strips even more of their value.

It’s bullshit alright.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 6:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1263
DesEnglish wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
...For reference, Voss has coached 203 games, Fagan 215.


Voss has coached 86 games at Carlton - not 203, Fagan has coached 215 games at Brisbane.


He’s coached 203 senior games (94 as Carlton coach), he was also at Port in assistant roles for 6 years. Do you think he’s going to come out next year and have improved significantly? How much more patient do I need to be?


As patient as Brisbane was with Fagan, since that seems to be your benchmark.

Perplexity told me 86 Carlton games, damn hallucinating LLM....


Actually, it was from the previous posts, the comparison to Fagan.

So if Brisbane’s patience is the benchmark, Voss needs a PF as a minimum to remain.

Where will his improvement come from?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 6:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1263
london blue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It all starts with the midfield.
I'll just leave this one here.



https://x.com/AFL/status/1972579741099299037


Hewett, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh should be traded this season. None run with the ball or kick short to space or run deep forward with overlap, there skills aren't up to it, their IQ is non-existent and simply just lack talent. Since they only bomb long to Charlie or Harry, which is 70's footy and doesn't belong and obviously aren't following instructions, then must go immediately. No arguments from me. Get it done Voss the Boss....

Btw - McGluggage kicked 18 goals in 25 (4 in the GF) and Cripps kicked 14. :lol:

I'm also leaving this discussion Sidefx. I'll let the future tell the story.....


They simply lack talent!!! What a reactive statement. Ridiculous.

Refreshing listening to Cam Bruce (who we let go), the mid coach for the Lions. Tactics, a challenging/competitive environment is what makes the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 7:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1680
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Cazzesman wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Five on the bench in 2026…


Room for 2 rucks.................... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Regards Cazzesman


Perhaps 1, perhaps none they way the rules are changing.

At centre throw-ups (doesn't sound right) you put in your best high jumper
Boundary throw-ins will be far and few between if they opt for the last touch rule

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 9:24 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 8272
Location: Bendigo
Navy One wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Five on the bench in 2026…


Room for 2 rucks.................... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Regards Cazzesman


Perhaps 1, perhaps none they way the rules are changing.

At centre throw-ups (doesn't sound right) you put in your best high jumper
Boundary throw-ins will be far and few between if they opt for the last touch rule

Last disposal, not last touch.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 9:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:18 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Deep Blue Sea
Crusader wrote:
Navy One wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Five on the bench in 2026…


Room for 2 rucks.................... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Regards Cazzesman


Perhaps 1, perhaps none they way the rules are changing.

At centre throw-ups (doesn't sound right) you put in your best high jumper
Boundary throw-ins will be far and few between if they opt for the last touch rule

Last disposal, not last touch.


Yep .... my bad. Last disposal within the 50m arcs

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 10:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 1400
Effes wrote:
Interesting to see another premiership won by a team with 'mediocre' rucks. Rule changes may favour TDK next year and beyond but history suggests don't overspend/overinvest on rucks.

Trading has been a key part of Brisbane's success (along with father/son and academy luck). The trouble with the Melbourne clubs is that when interstate talent wants to return to Victoria it gets 'diluted' amongst a bigger pool of teams.

One of the other keys for Brisbane was nailing the picks in the 15-30 range (compare that to Silvagni, particularly his record when it comes to smalls).

Lohmann pick 20
Zac Bailey pick 15
Darcy Wilmot pick 16
Brandon Starcevich pick 18
Logan Morris pick 31

Too often Carlton picks poorly in this window and/or doesn't have any picks in this window to seriously build quality depth in the list.


Stephen Conole is a brilliant recruiter.

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"can't kick ... don't pick"


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2025 11:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10878
diesel95 wrote:
london blue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It all starts with the midfield.
I'll just leave this one here.



https://x.com/AFL/status/1972579741099299037


Hewett, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh should be traded this season. None run with the ball or kick short to space or run deep forward with overlap, there skills aren't up to it, their IQ is non-existent and simply just lack talent. Since they only bomb long to Charlie or Harry, which is 70's footy and doesn't belong and obviously aren't following instructions, then must go immediately. No arguments from me. Get it done Voss the Boss....

Btw - McGluggage kicked 18 goals in 25 (4 in the GF) and Cripps kicked 14. :lol:

I'm also leaving this discussion Sidefx. I'll let the future tell the story.....


They simply lack talent!!! What a reactive statement. Ridiculous.

Refreshing listening to Cam Bruce (who we let go), the mid coach for the Lions. Tactics, a challenging/competitive environment is what makes the difference.


All - please note, I was proving a point in how ridiculous and embarrassing the argument that our midfield lacks all of the above. It's truly NOT what I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 7:40 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3315
SurreyBlue wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
london blue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It all starts with the midfield.
I'll just leave this one here.



https://x.com/AFL/status/1972579741099299037


Hewett, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh should be traded this season. None run with the ball or kick short to space or run deep forward with overlap, there skills aren't up to it, their IQ is non-existent and simply just lack talent. Since they only bomb long to Charlie or Harry, which is 70's footy and doesn't belong and obviously aren't following instructions, then must go immediately. No arguments from me. Get it done Voss the Boss....

Btw - McGluggage kicked 18 goals in 25 (4 in the GF) and Cripps kicked 14. :lol:

I'm also leaving this discussion Sidefx. I'll let the future tell the story.....


They simply lack talent!!! What a reactive statement. Ridiculous.

Refreshing listening to Cam Bruce (who we let go), the mid coach for the Lions. Tactics, a challenging/competitive environment is what makes the difference.


All - please note, I was proving a point in how ridiculous and embarrassing the argument that our midfield lacks all of the above. It's truly NOT what I believe.

:thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 11:44 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7214
SurreyBlue wrote:

All - please note, I was proving a point in how ridiculous and embarrassing the argument that our midfield lacks all of the above. It's truly NOT what I believe.


Ok, I'll bite.
Not sure what your point is though.
You seem to be making stuff up now to make a moot point, so I'll try and make my position a bit clearer.
From the start I have said we need to add speed, skill and more goal kicking to our midfield (not that our midfield is crap).
I have also maintained we need at least 1 more mid (preferably 2) with "burst speed" to add to Jagga next season, something you seem to be in agreement with based on your 1st point in a previous post regarding Cripps and Hewett attending CBs together. More importantly, clearly the club agrees also as those are the types of players we seem to be targeting to give coaching options.
If you think both Cerra and Walsh were playing at 100% capacity this year or that they will in future years, you need your head read Fred (jokes). :grin:
The optimist in me says I hope they do, but the reality is that they have both been injured on and off for a few years now and if we have any hope we need better depth to support them and give them positional change options to prolong their careers and get more out of them. i.e. Cerra to HF.

Back to the post, it was about the midfield being damaging by kicking goals, especially important for us as we have lacked our smalls and talls kicking goals this year.
Now while the stats might not be as damaging as they probably need to be for you to agree, you need to take the following into account:
1. The differentials were enough to lose games we could've won and got us closer to being in the top 8 this season, especially with a forward line that was not delivering.
2. In a game of %'s we are a still a little way off the top of the AFL team.
3. A lot of our midfield i50 entries were just bombs to packs or contests (not coaching because any A grade mid looks for a target first, as any A grade forward sees this and looks for space, pressure effects decision making).
4. And I am sure most would agree the "eye test" says we have a lot of work to do i.e. How many times this year do you recall our mids bursting out the centre and kicking goals - not many.

CBAs and goals in regular season only.

Lions CBAs & goals
Neale 82% - 7
Dunkley 76% - 5
McCluggage 73% - 13
W Ashcroft 52% - 10
Mids - 35

Mid/Forward (also next highest CBA)
Rayner 16% - 29

Carlton CBAs & goals
Cripps 80% - 14 (Cripps played in the F50 a lot this year also)
Hewett 77% - 7
Cerra 66% - 5
Walsh 56% - 5
Mids - 31 (12% differential)

Mid/Forward (also next highest CBA)
Williams 21% - 22 (24% differential)


Inside 50s and Score Involvement averages for the season.

Lions
Neale i50 4.2 - SI 5.5
Dunkley i50 3.3 - SI 5.4
McCluggage i50 5.7 - SI 7.2
W Ashcroft i50 4.4 - SI 4.9

Mid/Forward
Rayner i50 2.9 - SI 5.5

Carlton
Cripps i50 3.5 - SI 5.7
Hewett i50 3.7 - SI 6
Cerra i50 4.9 - SI 5.1
Walsh i50 3.8 - SI 5.6

Mid/Forward
Williams i50 2.4 - SI 4.2

So as I have said time and time again, none of this is about our players being crap or the coach can't coach but it is more about adding attributes and options that we don't have to our midfield as the mids we have are all very similar, especially in pace.

You only see coaching and I see the need to add player types that other teams have and are making finals to give coaching the options to change the game plan up and execute it effectively.
I'm just glad the club are targeting and adding these kinds of players, even if some are only for depth.
So I agree, let the future tell the story....


Last edited by Sidefx on Thu Oct 02, 2025 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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