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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 12:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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also happy with all that Doc, its not a gutting, its a preparing...bet. we do zilch of it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 1:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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Location: Bendigo
Cazzesman wrote:
Happy with all that Doc. :thumbsup: I'm disappointed for Cincotta as I thought he might help, but at 28 I don't think we need to carry him.

Regards Cazzesman

We’ve got a bunch of young, pliable minds on the list that can only benefit from being around a bloke with a story like Cincotta’s.

Yes, there are only 44 list spots. But, there are remnants in that senior group that came up in a time where all the extras were optional.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 1:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Crusader wrote:
We’ve got a bunch of young, pliable minds on the list that can only benefit from being around a bloke with a story like Cincotta’s.


That may have merit, but you can't keep someone for storytelling purposes. They've actually gotta be good at footy.


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 Post subject: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 1:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
I think a couple on Doc list have zero trade value

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 2:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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If the AFL were serious about equalization measures, they'd make two changes to the current cap structure:

- Salary cap relief would be offered for termination of contracts due to misconduct/breach of contract. Gives clubs more incentive to look outside the incestuous APS setup without the risk factor being as high. It also allows clubs to set better off-field culture standards by being able to enforce the contract, rather than allowing the ongoing rot to set in.

- Allow teams to structure the payout of contracts as needed against future salary caps (say a maximum of 5 years), rather than against the remaining terms of the contract. For example, if we decide to delist Saad at the end of the year, there's a payout of $ 600,000. We can choose to either take the entire $600,000 against the cap next year or equally space it out in even $125,000 increments over the next 5 years.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 2:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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What are the salary cap rules re: termination for gross misconduct, does it count 100% against the cap? I can understand it not being 0% - there has to be some risk with punting on bad eggs. But you are right that it won't help get clubs out of the mire if a righteous sacking puts the club at a major competitive disadvantage.

I'm not as on board with the second point because I think clubs should honour their commitments in the absence of misconduct and shouldn't be helped to behave dishonourably. I still don't like what we did with LOB and think it could discourage future free agents.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 3:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 10190
Location: Australia
Sydney Blue wrote:
I think a couple on Doc list have zero trade value

Sent from my SM-F956B using Tapatalk


More than a couple, it’s a list of wishful thinking….


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 3:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 10190
Location: Australia
DocSherrin III wrote:
Some great differences of opinion here. Here's hoping you get the opportunity to come on here and say 'I told you so'.

But the Carlton of 2023 is long gone and so has the playing style. The game evolves. Voss needs to prove to Wright that he can evolve too.

Here's what I'd do. By gutting the list, I mean I want these changes made. It's Carlton, so it's unlikely to happen. I'll be happy with just McKay and Silvagni gone to be honest.

 Adam Saad = Delist/Retire
 Alex Cincotta = Delist
 Blake Acres = Trade
 Elijah Hollands = Delist
 Flynn Young = Delist
 Francis Evans = Delist
 Harry McKay = 1st Rnd return
 Jack Silvagni = 2nd Rnd return
 Jaxon Binns = Trade
 Jesse Motlop = Trade
 Mitch McGovern = Delist
 Orazio Fantasia = Delist
 Sam Docherty = Retired
 Tom De Koning = 1st Rnd return

* I doubt Saad can do another pre-season. Hopefully he does the right thing and retires. Pretty sure he'll just jog for his cash though.
* Elijah's departure won't cost us anything. Hopefully the locker is already empty.
* An Acres trade doesn't free up cap space, but you've seen his best. More wingers coming through.
* The club won't get much for Binns and/or Motlop but these players aren't in our best 25.

Harry McKay will not improve at Carlton. You've seen his best here. Trade him while you can and there are buyers.

Backline talls in 2026 are Weitering, Haynes, O'Farrell and Dean. You don't need an injury-ridden JSOS/McGovern on $600k+.

The club needs to get creative. They'll have to bundle selections for the 2026 draft to get Cody Walker - but the ability to trade 2027 selections this year could be the impetus they need to at least pretend they know what they're doing.

Cripps still has two more years left on his contract. He looks like a Carlton-lifer, but I'd see if West Coast wanted a playing mentor for that midfield group. Like McKay - there's no improvement coming from Cripps. You've seen his best.

And in case you're wondering - yes, I'm signing Kemp to a one-year deal. He's only 24.


So playing style of 2023 is long gone, so therefore the playing style of 2025 will be long gone by the time these changes take effect, so what list style are you recruiting?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 4:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Owen Leonard
@owenleonard_
Jack Silvagni might’ve played his last game for Carlton, with Michael Voss from Optus Stadium revealing he’s set to miss the rest of the season.

The @CarltonFC coach also not happy with Craig McRae publicly detailing the Silvagni meeting.

On @CollingwoodFC coach Craig McRae admitting to Silvagni meeting:

“It’d unusual for a coach to announce something like that … it’s not something we would do.”

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 4:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Eddie Summerfield
@eddiesummers
Michael Voss on Craig McRae's date with Jack Silvagni:

"Where I sit very much is respecting the privacy of the player, it's not for me to announce something like that on behalf of someone. Because they're the ones who have to walk back into the locker room. I can't speak to other coaches would go about that."

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 5:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Effes wrote:
Owen Leonard
@owenleonard_
Jack Silvagni might’ve played his last game for Carlton, with Michael Voss from Optus Stadium revealing he’s set to miss the rest of the season.

The @CarltonFC coach also not happy with Craig McRae publicly detailing the Silvagni meeting.

On @CollingwoodFC coach Craig McRae admitting to Silvagni meeting:

“It’d unusual for a coach to announce something like that … it’s not something we would do.”


Michael Voss is all class .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 5:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 15098
Mickstar wrote:
Effes wrote:
Owen Leonard
@owenleonard_
Jack Silvagni might’ve played his last game for Carlton, with Michael Voss from Optus Stadium revealing he’s set to miss the rest of the season.

The @CarltonFC coach also not happy with Craig McRae publicly detailing the Silvagni meeting.

On @CollingwoodFC coach Craig McRae admitting to Silvagni meeting:

“It’d unusual for a coach to announce something like that … it’s not something we would do.”


Michael Voss is all class .

He is for sure.
I commented elsewhere that I thought it was strange that a coach would publicly announce meeting up with a contracted player during the season.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 5:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2918
If Carlton were to get a premiership player from another club I’d like Vlastuin.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 5:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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DesEnglish wrote:
If Carlton were to get a premiership player from another club I’d like Vlastuin.

Funny you mention Vlastuin coz I posted him awhile back and got shitcanned . I agree Des , Vlastuin is tough and hard and a bloody good footballer to go along with that . And he is a winner . Fantastic player .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 6:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Surprised anyone would be against it, but I can't imagine Richmond would be willing to deal; their need for winning mentors is even greater than ours.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 6:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 4988
DocSherrin III wrote:
Harry McKay will not improve at Carlton. You've seen his best here. Trade him while you can and there are buyers.

- Swans 2nd rounder and 2026 first rounder for McKay (they need this years first for their academy player Max King). Their 2nd rounder will help us get the points for Harry Dean.
- We will need to get rid of our TDK compensation in case of an early bid on Harry Dean. Gold Coast will struggle to obtain all three of their academy players (Uwland, Patterson and Addinsall) so I'm sure they would give us their 2nd rounder (more points for Dean and/or another player) and their 2026 first rounder.

In summary I think we should mainly focus on getting Dean and Ison (and probably a couple more) this year and then load in the 2026 draft (with at least 3 first rounders - 4 if Walsh leaves as a FA or even more if we traded Weiters or Charlie) similar to what Richmond did last year.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 7:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 4988
DocSherrin III wrote:
The club needs to get creative.

Problem is that being 'creative' in the past hasn't worked out well for us. Firstly the Stocker trade, then trading down for Kemp and Philp and last year trading up for Jagga who subsequently did his ACL (bad luck I know).

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 8:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Probably would only trade McKay if two first rounders were on the table. Otherwise it feels far too much like selling low given his last few years.

I don't think clubs would take it when you can get Mihocek to play the same role for less. Or try to entice Daniher out of retirement for free.

I maintain that there's more question marks around Charlie's physical ability to still churn out enough games to get a team into finals, and even more question marks about his mental capacity to do much once he's there.

Unfortunately, I doubt clubs can get a trade done with the required cap space and trade cache.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 9:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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It's a difficult call. McKay is in theory the more valuable player for us, because of his height, contested marking ability to play 2nd ruck. Curnow gives you better athleticism and field kicking, and is a more reliable kick when switched on. H has fewer question marks about being physically cooked, but the mental side is a big worry.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2025 10:21 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 2222
Not getting Dan Houston was the right call.


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