Bondi - Carltons track record over the years of players having issues and the club straightening out these issues has been abysmal . Norman, Angwin . Betts , Garlett , Yarran , Fev, Stocker, Robinson and now Elijah and there are rumors that there is more with in the playing group - the approach in the past has been to unload and make them someone else problem -some have gone on some haven't .
I can't recall Carlton ever turning a player around and it is not just the flawed geniuses either we have track record of recruiting players who struggle to get on the park through injury.
In any industry not just the AFL its very rarely a gamble pays off particularly with Elijah known issues
Decisions like this can wreck the fabricate of the club. You have 44 list places available you can't afford to many gambles.

From the outside looking in it is clear there is not a buy in by all the players and you have to question why players are getting flattened and no one is batting and eyelid - Boyd , Evans , Acres and even TDK was thrown into the fence nothing said or done about it. Other players making space and being ignored - There is an issue it cannot be denied and it has been around since the middle of last year when we both stood there and watched the capitulation against GWS.

the problems run deep there is no need to bring other problems in that need to be resolved

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

We can cross Reilly O’Brien off the wish list.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Oh yeah, well I never fancied you anyway, Reilly!

Yes how quickly we forget and the grass is always greener elsewhere.
All clubs have their issues its just that winning covers the cracks!

I think it's now clear that we should do a full rebuild similar to what Richmond did last year - except with more of a focus on obtaining future draft picks and/or younger players. The main focus of this year's draft should be obtaining Dean without using the TDK compo pick and that's why I wouldn't be too unhappy for JSOS to leave as the free agency compo might allow this to occur.
Obviously only trade players if we think we are getting good value in return and no 'fire sales' are necessary.
I thoroughly enjoyed our 'golden run' in the 2nd half on 2023 but lets be honest - we were realistically a middle of the road side playing with confidence and a lot of luck.

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There is no footy god

I disagree, this list doesn’t need massive change, it’s the culture and mindset of the playing group, especially the “leaders”. A full rebuild won’t change the attitude and mindset, we’ll end up with more of the same, a bunch of underperforming players who are comfortable with loosing.

We need some specific players to fill gaps and roles, but we also need to change the leadership group. Players like Cripps and Curnow are not leaders. We need someone more like Toby Greene

I just think that there are now too many gaps/roles to be filled.
It will be interesting to see how Graham Wright views our list and the best way forward - I guess we will find out during trade week.

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There is no footy god

First of all, I'm not sticking up for anyone. I don't pretend top have the answers.
I'm not going to condone exaggerations such as your last 2 posts, just because you're angry.
We are all upset, but take a breath and check your facts.

Sydney Blue" wrote



I'm assuming you are being specific about the years, or is it a general comment?

I noticed Surrey just went all on board with your post, without questioning anything you said. He thinks you're right, despite the generalisations, exaggeration and timeline. I get it. The club has a target on it.

I understand people are frustrated and would say such things, in the heat of the moment. Abysmal? Really? Compared to the clean cut Hawks? Not this grass is greener on the other side of the fence again, or selecting a few players in some specific years to cast dispersion on the whole club for the last 2 decades.

There's a lot of good people in EVERY club including us. We rose from the Ashes and should have played in ther GF in 2012. We have played some great footy between 2022 and 2024. Andrew Russell told us we looked well on our way to win a flag in 2023. We've had a couple peaks, so something must have been right at the time. Your post doesnt recognise the achievements, instead painig the whole club, for the whole of 2 decades with the same tarnished brush. A tad bias maybe?

Lets look at your claims:

In 2004 Norman and Angwin arrived at a Carlton training session under the influence of ecstasy. While Norman admitted to taking the drug, Angwin denied it but a subsequent drug test proved positive and Angwin was sacked by Carlton.

2014 Garlett and Robinson, had played in Finals in 2011-12, and were good players under Ratten. Three men pleaded guilty to seriously injuring AFL players Jeff Garlett and Mitch Robinson in a brawl in Melbourne's CBD in 2014. Robinson was delisted by Carlton after the 2014 season, and Garlett traded to Melbourne after lying about the incident.

In 2015 Yarran club found out Yarran was addicted to ice, broke up with his long time girflriend and sent him packing at the end of the year to Richmond. Prior to his addiction (which didnt involve anyone else at the club) he had played a significant rtole in our success in 2011-12.

Betts? Tell me how he was not pulled in line by the club, and what the misdemeanour was he is guilty of?

Fev traded in 2011 was a player who wasn't reigned in and was traded to Lions after his unteenth misdemeanour, pissing on a shop window. Of all the players you mentioned, only Fev had a prolonged history for misdemeanours. His whole file is right here, but nothing about the other players you mention, than their one off isue that was dealt with on the same year.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/502302/the-fevola-file

in 2020 Stocker elected to return to Victoria when the club was forced to spend much of the season living on the Gold Coast to avoid interstate travel restrictions associated with the pandemic. He later revealed that the move to the interstate hub had been a tipping point which exacerbated mental health issues he had been suffering for several years prior. How the hell do you blame Carlton for Covid, lockdown, mental health issues. He was traded to Saints at the end of 2022.

Elijah what about Elijah? Do you actually know what the club has done to lead to his downfall, and what did he cost us again? Clutching for straws SB. Letting off too much steam and trying to take down the whole club.



Name One. And find one iota of evidence that may tarnish one player, or club. You can't. So stick rumours where they belong in serious times as now.



Yarran, Garlett and Fev were traded after their misdemenaour. Did you want us to keep them?
Stocker suffered from Dan Syndrome. Dont know how that's our fault. Did you want us to keep him?
Robinson, Angwin and Norman were delisted. Did you want us to keep them?

So, it all starts for you in 2004 with 2 players who were dealt with, then 10 years later, after Finals, we had issues with 3 players 2014-2015 we dealt with, then 10 years later, we are to blame for Stockers and elijahs mental health issues.



This is a different point re recruiting injured players. Obviously you steaming by now, and on a roll.....a bit husterical TBH.




The recruitment of Elijah brought down the club. Do you know what's up with Elijah, other than rumours?



Clearly. Now tell me what the issue is? Its not Elijah 2024 ! Its not Fev 2011! Its not Yarran 2015.

Shit happens I get, but trying to glue all the perceived problems over 2 decades, whilst ignoring our successes, is really troublesome for me. Its not the way to fix things. You look at issues each with its own microscope.



You don't know this for fact, but happy to present it as fact.

This is why 2 weeks ago you suggested we blow up the joint. Its not a fair approach, and that aint going to happen.

How many players with issues/ injury prone did Austin bring to the club? I was pointing the blame straight at Austin after the Trade/ Draft period last year, but feel SOS made the biggest mistakes and loved trading for injury prone players on the cheap.

Interested to know what you think, because Austin is your obvious No 1 target and Voss is Surrey Blues target, and The Board is keogh's obvious target. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't see how you think its a sure bet, especially given you all think its something different.

So, get rid of those 2 problems (Austin and Voss) would change the clubs fortunes? Maybe. But I think injury has derailed us something shocking. Using injury as an excuse is not what your hearing from our coach, nor in the media, but like last year, at the end of the season, after Voss is sacked, you will hear from the media, how unfair it was for Voss given the huge injury list from round 1. I notice neither you or surrey mention that as an obvious issue.

WE had 9 players under 23 playing on Thursday, and you want them to play like seasoned players and get us a win. I don't think thay are fit enough to find the the extra energy to fly the flag TBH. S & C is where you will see huge change at the end of the year. I think Wright has already found replacements, such was the shock of the S&C of the S&C dept. So much for power and strength.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

How many is too many? That way you will know if its too many.

You don't think the following missing most of the year, will help us fill gapes next year? A fit Newman, Walsh, Smith, Cottrell, Hollands, Kemp, Silvagni, and a fit Charlie and Harry?

Plus a full set of 2025 and 2026 picks when TDK walks.

It will turn around next year. Cripps and Charlie's leadership wont make us or break us. I doubt Charlie will be in that group next year.

As for 2023, that's your realism humpers. We blew our chance to win the flag and we were not middle of the road when we got our troops back in the 2nd half of the year. WE won 9 in a row, rested players in last round, then won 2 Finals in a row. That's nothing like middle of the road...and our wins continued in 2024 toll injury started to wreck our chances.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

SB is right, It’s easy to understand, we can’t get them right, and seems haven’t been able to turn them around for the last 30 or so years, so our history of moving players with issues is appalling. You can individualise all the issues but no other club has done what we have done with so many players for so such years.

Also, before the 80’s, the club was able to control such issues - yes different times but with much less resources and knowledge.
I won’t individualise but the difference in our club between then and now, is huge.

Yeah , George and Wes took care of everything .

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All my dangerous friends

Bondi take off your blue tinted glasses and have a real good long hard look.
We have on here bemoaned the fact that players listed as 1 to 2 weeks turn into 8 to 10 weeks are our medical staff that incompetent.
3 players under 21 last year out for weeks with Calf injuries. These are old man injuries.
Player stubbed his toe misses half the season.
Another 2 bouts of personal leave with no sign of return.
One goes on personal leave supposed to be over breaking up with girlfriend when he returns he thanks his girlfriend for supporting him. Then knock on knee after 2 weeks they say they need more scans when they have a scanning clinic on front door.
Another misses half the season over slight hamstring tightness.
Another misses start of the season with hamstring then out of the blue hot spot on foot with no date of return.
Senior players are searching else where
Others have completely given up.

There is a culture issue at the club being masked by AFL policy. The club doctors must not be able to lie straight in bed.

Stop reading the bullshit trotted out and read the room.

Also Betts was part of the gang of three going on benders.

arrested for being drunk and disorderly, served as a turning point in his life. This event led to a club-imposed fine and a period of reflection, with his wife playing a crucial role in his recovery. He has also spoken about his past involvement with drugs and substance abuse within his community.
Here's a more detailed look:
2009 Arrest:
Betts was arrested for public drunkenness in Melbourne and spent time in jail, according to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. He was also fined by the police and the Carlton Football Club.
Turning Point:
Betts has stated that this incident was a crucial moment in his life and helped him realize the need to change his behavior.
Support from Wife:
His wife, Anna, has been instrumental in his recovery and personal growth.
Past Substance Abuse:
Betts has spoken about past struggles with alcohol, including benders and drinking whisky and Jim Beam, and also mentioned the prevalence of drugs, including ice, in his community.



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_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I don't think our injury list has been too bad this year compared to many other clubs and the likes of Newman, Cottrell, Kemp and Silvagni won't move the needle much. E Hollands career may well be over.
Look at how the top sides like the Pies and Lions run as ragged with their slick ball movement and make us look second rate - I can't see this group ever getting to that level.

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There is no footy god

I think you're taking the piss. I saw a stat last week that we've played the 2nd most players in the AFL this year. That's not by choice.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yeah, just because we seem to have this problem every season doesn't mean it's not a massive problem. Look at Essendon*: an admittedly lucky 6-4 with a mostly healthy list, 0-7 once the injuries struck. Look at Sydney: 2024 grand finalists with a healthy list, terrible for most of 2025 with 6-10 injuries most week, only rediscovering some form in the last few weeks with Gulden and Mills back from injury.

We've been missing critically important players for all or most of the season, and even among those who've been mostly present you've got the likes of Curnow and Acres who were underdone and busted up.