Agree - the injuries have hurt us a lot. The list changes last year as well. Have mentioned this previously but that is part of the problem, not the entire issue. It’s no coincidence we beat Melbourne. Their one of a few teams still playing a contested game.

I appreciate you are busy and have heaps of work on, and for that reason I appreciate the effort you make to share your views. It takes effort, and we should all appreciate effort.

I aren't pressed for time like most, and don't have an attention disorder like some who can't read more than a line or two, before they are full, (different issue to being too busy) and I don't mind spending my idle time on Carlton. I retired just before I turned 55yo, because I thought we were going to play Finals every year after the 66 game rebuild, and I can't ski and surf and travel all the time. You know what they say about too much of a good thing.

You are dogmatic. Its all or nothing for you. I accept that, so don't be offended. What is, is.

Point 2. Its all on Voss?

You like to dismiss any other possibility for failure but yours....injuries? No. Skills? No. Culture? No. Dick pics? No. Loser mentality? No. Assistant coaches? No. Development? No and there's many more logical reasons for our failings than the ones I just mentioned, that you may have mentioned and others have mentioned since Newman and Smith had season ending injuries in preseason, just after Sayers showed us his dick....TDK the elephant in the room? Huge issue.

We are all on the same side. We all want answers. Some think they are right and everyone else is wrong. None of us really know the exact reasons for our failure.

If you keep ignoring all possibilities that's fine, but don't have a go at those who do take the time to want to discuss possibilities. You don't win Flags because someone said you would. The ducks have to line up. A lot has to go right. We all know that.

Point 1 and 3. We are talking about Finals bound teams when we allude to skills, not bottom 8 comparisons. We hear commentators telling you weekly "Carlton's skills are the worst in the comp"..."how is a game plan to work when you turnover the ball like that..." Our skills, even from some of our better skilled players have been terrible this year. Cerra may have been hampered from the work he had done in Dubai for his hammies but may be better again next year.....same team, same coach as 2023 2024 and 2025....why blame the coach all of the sudden for player skills, when it wasnt such an issue in 2023, and first half of 2024? Doesn't suit your Agenda?

point 4, Are you admitting List Mgt has been an issue or not? Between SOS and Austin 10 small forwards selected, and this year we have Gresham on our radar. WE don't have good small forwards and no outside run, and this year, that can be put down to missing Cottrell and Cincotta who could run the lines, Jagga Smith who was Top 3 draftee and killing it in the preseason, like Fantasia was...I saw it with my own eyes. Add our best skilled runners Walsh and Elijah to the missing in 2025 list, and you don't think injury had an impact on our run? Acres started off the season injured and has been injured all year, played one game....injury hindered him too.

So you see what you see and you can ignore whatever you want, but for those who look for other reasons for our demise this year, othert than singling out the coach, don't bag us...go with the flow. Weight the possibility, don't discard it, especially when its backed by empiricals. Did I mention Mental issues that stopped players playing their best? That's an injury too.

Was Coleman medaliist fit and firing in the first 15 rounds this year? I'm talking the Charlie variety. Ditto question for our other Coleman mnedallist.

Do you think Cripps will get even half the Brownlow votes he earned last year? Vossys fault?

Maaaaaaaaate....come on. I agree with much o what you post, love the good bits, don't like the ignorance and eyes and gun fixed on one problem when the smart money is on many more reasons than just the the coach and what he can't control. I'm not fixed on the coach. What will be will be, but I'm going to look at what players do and dont do and call it for what it is they can control.

We have issues. Plenty of them. They are fixable, and I dont think we are that far away, but we have to identify them. I'm sure Wright has cat his net of enquiry to every corner of the club. It would be remiss of him to say its just the coach, and get a 6th coach in 11 years, or 3rd coach in 5. That's crazy stuff. Keep doing the same thing and looking for a different result.

One thing we can all agree on is Change is necessary, and some things have to change for us to improve next year. Change is inevitable.

I bet we have around 10 changes to the list. Maybe 8, maybe 12. They will happen for good reason. We need to keep improving the List.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

That's the spirit surrey. No one is saying its one problem, but you come across as if its all on Vossy. See your point 2. We didnt make the Finals this year because of Vossy, but we did make the finals the previous 2 years under Vossy.

There's other problems at play. THis is what we want to put a stop to. The coach is being looked after by Wright. Nothing we say will change that. Holy Jesus I wonder what happens if Wright keeps Voss? I'm sure there will be a pile on on Wright.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If you look at the stats on the weekend, the only stats we beat them in were Free kicks (8 more), clearances (3 more), marks i50 (1 more) and most importantly goals (2 more).
They had 80 more disposals than us and 10 more contested marks.
I think we were outplayed on the outside and matched on the inside but we won because of goal kicking accuracy.
It was the first time we kicked more goals than behinds since Rd 11.

Some interesting stats:
- We are still the no#1 contested possession team but #2 is the Crows (by 1 possession), so our contested game plan should work if we had more outside run like the Crows have, our team balance is off. GCS is #3 and the Dorks are #4.
- We are #6 for total clearances, behind Dogs, Suns, Roos, Lions and Swans.
- We are #2 for contested marks, behind the Crows.
- We are #4 for tackles, behind Pies, Cats and Hawks.
- We are actually #6 for i50s.
- But where we struggle is rebound i50s and we are #14, a quick HBF with skill will fix that.
- Goal accuracy is our biggest issue, we are #13
- And we are also #13 for shots on goal, so a lot of i50s are being wasted as we know.
- But this is the clincher, we are dead set last #18 for shot efficiency.

For me, all of this confirms what we have seen and I've been saying.
There is nothing wrong with the game plan, it is working for other teams, the only difference is they have the players to execute it with speed and skill and can adjust both tempo and movement out of the contest by making space and having better connection.
We don't have the speed or skill, so we are 1 dimensional as a result.
This season has not been a total loss though, we will most likely finish 11th, add the right players and we are back in finals.
But to do this we desperately need speed and skill, add those this off season and we will look totally different.
IMO Voss is doing his job, keeping us competitive with what he has at his disposal.
Can he improve, of course he can and some off field changes can help him with that.
I think his mantra of incremental changes and building is what we need to keep moving forward and until I see otherwise I am still on team Voss.
We may not be in finals, but we are also not WCE.

Yep , little things make a big difference . We need a tweaking , not a slash and burn . I like your post .

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All my dangerous friends

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Good call siders

Sidex wrote:



Bad kicking from (mainly set) shots at goal cost us

Rnd 1 v Tigers
Rnd 2 v Hawks
Rnd 3 v Dogs
Rnd 4 v Pies possibly
Rnd 14 v North

Where would we be on the ladder if we kicked straight in those games?

We would be equal 4th on 12 wins 6 losses, and Doc and Newman would be still available to play.

Do we blame Vossy for the following?



Do we blame Vossy for the following?





I agree, and this has been the case since round 1. You can blame Game plan all you like but our deficiencies were made obvious from round 1.




Not a bad win v Dees last week with 14 players unavailable. More amazing is it was the first game we have won in 2025 with more than 8 out injured.



1. A speedy HB to add to Saad (feel next year is Saad's last year and expect him to lose pace and be overtaken next year. If not, bonus!
2. A speedy Mid along with Jagga
3. A skilled HF
4. A dangerous small forward ( cash in a few of our many average smalls)
5. Lastly, a ruckman (need a reliable Ruck. Pittonet is vulnerable and slow on one leg)

If we can get all the above added to the list, not only will it increase our skills and speed, it will increase our depth and increase the wins.



Right on... and if we can't achieve all the above additions in 2025, we add the rest in 2026, along with the No 1 Draft pick Cody Walker.
This year was the blip we had to have.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I have never, ever said it’s just the game plan.
I’ve mentioned our list management - last 2 years delisting of experienced players for draft picks many times.
I’ve mentioned players such as McGovern, Acres, Saad, etc. being pathetic in what they output many times.
I’ve also mentioned our coaches being rigid with selections and even positions.
The greatest issue however is the game plan and our reluctance to use run and carry or even structure to execute.

You can add club culture.

Reluctance to use run and carry, Surrey?
Which players are you using to execute that game plan? The coaches role is to extract the most out of the list at his disposal. IMHO, that's what he's doing.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yep . If anything he's overdelivered as we have some very mediocre cattle . The game plan stands up . Everything has gone wrong this year starting with Sayers debacle and its gone downhill from there . Do a bit of selective recruiting and we will be back in business .

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All my dangerous friends

Sorry if I missed all that surrey, and I agree.
But, I have no doubt the loudest noise from you has been directed towards the coach consistently, whereas the other points not so consistent imo.
Get rid of the coach and our game plan is fixed to suit the "modern Game" is what I have absorbed.

The last sentence is confusing, blamed on game plan and reluctance to use run and carry players, we don't have? Oxymoron?

Other than Cottrell and Walsh, SOS didnt recruit for run and carry, and both those players have been injured all year.
Austin gave us Saad, Carroll, Cincotta, Fantasia and we have played all of them when fit for purpose (Carroll only a first year player)
Cowan is more attcking, but not run and carry imo. He will fit well in that type of team though.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

How many times do we see our players kick instead of handballing to a player forward or beside them BV?
Surely, you've noticed our players ignoring the run carrier next to them to kick. Mostly inside50 as well.
That is coaching and game plan execution.

As another example - Notice our players during centre clearances - their first thought is to use the runner off the back of the square or the players at the back of the contest. They don't have that same thought process at the around the ground contests. IMO, it's setup and structure and coaching.

Decision making is in the hands of the player with the ball.

Ignoring players in better positions isn't a game plan instruction.
It couldn't be.

Cripps does it. He does it alot.
Game plan or is it he thinks he can do something better?

Id its the Game plan, I'd like to hear/read a transcript of would it would look like.
That would be hilarious.
Think about that.

"Cripps get the ball. He spots White on his own in the goal square. He ignores the easy hand ball over the top because Vossy told him to have a ping every time he gets within goal"

Now try writing the transcript of Vossy's instructions. Things get lost in translation, but also heat of the moment.

"Cripps wins the ball, and takes off, confronted by a defender front on. He has Saad on his left. Cripps tries to barge his way through and do it all himself, lucky he gets a slight touch by foot on the ball, and defender wins ball, and off he goes to the races"

That's called "burning" your team mate. Some choose to blame the coach for player decisions.

"Motlop takes the mark 35 out in front. He's just come on as sub, so he must be fresh. This is bread and butter stuff for small forwards. He comes in and misses the unmisable"....blame the coach.

If we kicked straight this year, we would have won 5 more games and be equal 4th on the ladder. Its not the fault of the Game plan we lost those 5 games. But its easy to blame the coach for the things that go on between the ears of players.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Like Hawthorn this and last year they have adopted an old tactic of running ahead of the ball and handballing to the running player.

We did that, in 2022. Vossy's first year. WE won heaps of games in first half of season. We got found out and teams blocked that method. Same is now happening to Hawks.

If we had players with speed out of the centre we could run the ball out. Players like Butters and Naicos who are elusive and quick off the mark and can change lateral movement quickly. Whose ours to apply that sort of texture to our Centre work?

There's a reason why 9 teams are tje top 9 and other teams are bottom 9. The List means a lot. The game changes, and if you haven't got the players to change with the game, you're left behind. Voss inherited the list from SOS and Austin. I'm sure Jagga and Walsh will make a huge difference to that area of the ground moreso than a new coach. Cattle count.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Starting to doubt.

It’s almost like if we mixed it up and went forwards sometimes and backwards other times the opposition might not know which way we were going to go.

Like Plan A and Plan B.

Just a thought.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb