That's an assumption.
When asked if only the midfield got a spray, he said himself he sprayed the whole team.

We have no depth, playing players that should be dropped is a direct result of this.
I was for dropping both Acres and Doc pregame because I thought it would not have mattered.
If they were dropped and we we lost by 70pts, what do you think would've happened?
The posters that watch and go to VFL games are all saying we have no one to step up.
This is our reality.

I agree he is at the head of the problem being the coach, but how has targeting the head gone for us for the last 20+ years?

i just hate this logic. bcos the other 5 coaches failed as well, as some sort of goodwill, we keep another failed coach? to set us back how many more years?


not for me. michael voss has failed, we now move onto the next. i don't care if the next one fails (i really do), we sack him too and we keep going until we find one who will deliver a brand of football we can be proud of, and win meaningful games and fingers crossed - the flag.

mick didn't explain anything, he made a wrong assumption. the guys at sen said the whole spray was directed at an 8 gamer.i couldn't care less binns was baked.

but surely everyone in the leadership group deserved the brunt of the bake, not the 8-gamer? that is the problem i had. and like cru said - the self preservation among our leaders is so on the nose it's not funny. only that same self-preservation extends to voss himself who didn't seem to have the marbles to man up and go at cripps - the one guy yday who really earned it.

what is really crazy. 12-months to the very round, we were sitting 2nd on the ladder. i remember watching on the couch and everyone was buzzing how our bottom 6 have lifted and are now in the convo for the best bottom 6 in the whole entire league. led by cottrell they even had the statistics to back this all up.

where's all that gone? i'll tell you. it's been coached out of them. our undynamic team of coaching plodders sat on their hands when the HTB rule changed. they sat on their hands as the game moved to run & overlap and carry. and they stubbornly remained steadfast to the plodding contested footy which was being phased out.

and that is the sword they will all die on when we miss the 8 in 3 months.


every club has injuries. no team ever goes 100% fit thru a season. pies injury list is big, nearly as big as ours this season. so i'm not a huge fan of injuries as an excuse, bcos the job of the coach is to build a system that can withstand individual absence, bcos the sum is greater than the parts etc. success = system over individual player

If Wright was in charge a few years ago Voss wouldn’t be appointed
We know that
I still think we need a new style of president
Not a guy who is from the top end of town
A person who is a people person
This is why we have [REDACTED] up so many appointments

I have no issue with anyone getting a spray, ever. I just want to know that Acres got the same treatment last week, Docherty too.

You can’t spill emotion like that and direct it at one player. I wasn’t at the ground nor was I actually watching by that stage, so I’m not saying that’s how it happened, simply not how I think it should.

Then again, Binns might be one of those guys that reacts well to direct public feedback, I put up some of my best performances after being questioned in front of my teammates.

Agree with this.

If this performance was coming from a player we’d be calling for him to be delisted at year’s end. There’d be no ‘well we haven’t supported this player properly, or we should give him another year to refine his skill set’.

He’s not the only one that needs to go, but he needs to go.

That is the simple way of looking at, just like we aren't wining so let's sack the coach.
There is an issue with our list first and foremost.
There is also an issue with coaching.

The logical process is to address the bigger deficiencies first and that is to strengthen the playing list or go full rebuild.
A new coach may or may not help in either circumstance, that is a gamble on top of a gamble done out of desperation.
I remember speaking with someone from Richmond coaching back in 2014/15ish when we had Malthouse and they said our list was cooked.
I think I even posted it on here somewhere.
I didn't believe them because we had some pretty good players back then, sure enough it was cooked.
We went full rebuild in 2016 and we have had a new coach every 3 years since.

There is no stability at the club, because we are Carlton and we throw the toys further out the cot than any other club.
Our list was not up to scratch last year, it was proven (mainly through injury) and instead of strengthening the list we added kids and bet on a new S&C coach.
Yet the supporters are expecting Voss to pull a rabbit out of his hat with the same list that has had nearly 12mths of excessive injuries.
So until it is either proven he has lost the players or the club fully backs our playing list (which is madness) then I'd say, change the list first and the coach next.
No more, tail wagging the dog culture at this club.
That alone is enough to scare off any emerging talented coach, then add the sacking culture on top of that, makes us a pretty unattractive destination.

So if you prefer the logic of looking for the next 'messiah coach' and Lord of the Flies culture at the club then that is up to you.
For me, I didn't renew my families memberships after last years trade period and if we sack Voss I won't be renewing mine either.
Because I believe we are still not addressing the predominant issue at the club, a playing list that is falling behind the curve.
And without depth and aside from a rebuild, no new coach can address this either without losing the playing group and penciling loses in.
I get your pissed off because you also believed we were somehow top 4 quality, but blowing the place up is what we do and that has not worked so far.
If you are worried about wasting years, then that is the absolute wrong way to go.
A more strategic and professional approach is required, something that Cook has brought to the club.
Give Voss another year, boost the playing list, add more support and go from there.
To me that is logical and the quickest way to move forward.

At the end of the day we can discuss this until we are blue in the face, but we don't hold the big stick, the club does.
Agree to disagree.

And yet we do, year after year after year.
Have a better look at our list.

You might be right Keogh, he may not have.
But you are also assuming that McRae could've done better with our playing list.
That I find harder to believe.
We will all know one way or another at the end of this season and next.
Just don't get your hopes up, we've had plenty of a messiah come in before and try.

I’m not defending the playing list, and I thought last year was probably the first time we started to address it.

The issue with last years clean out was they were all relatively low wages (compared to offloading Williams as an example).

Sorry my mistake.
I agree we addressed the age gap and the upcoming inclusion of team 19.
But if we were to be competitive this year, make finals and push up the ladder we did the total opposite.
Which is what annoyed me the most, our 'stars' are all getting older and Crippa will not be on the list in couple of years (unless we trade him out this year) and game is evolving past a few in our 1st 18.
Our window with this team is now and at the latest next season, then it is done.

I'm not sure on salary cap issues, others have discussed this more than me.
But if we added more cheap players like Haynes that would've been the smarter move especially with 2 mature and relatively injury free players leaving.
Owies was the odd one for me, he didn't really need to go.
If we kept him we wouldn't have added Evans.

This.

We've given him four seasons. That's not a knee jerk move. 4 years is PLENTY.

nope. just improve, play a gamestyle we can get behind, win or (honourable) loss.

the biggest problem with voss has been gameweeks where we have had a full compliment of players to choose from. and he goes tall and lumbering and contested. he brings docherty (who was already too slow before his 3rd acl) straight into an elimination semi.

voss has had so many chances to do something here. and in 4 years he has failed. time's up.


his time was up for me in 2023, when on a 9 game win streak - brought on by injury, not good coaching, pittonet recovers from injury and he's straight back into the team.

we go from running and dare and exciting footy, to slow, boring, contested and easily dispatched by the other team.

our 2023 finals run was bcos of the urgency and hunger and desire from the playing group - sheer will; and despite voss's unsustainable and limiting gameplan.

in 2024 it was clear he wasn't the guy that was going to coach us to 17. and now in 2025, people are still saying keep him around, so we can be completely redundant next year too.

lucky we have wright. he's not going to sit on his hands, and he could care less about supporters who want voss. he wants to win and will do what he needs to make that happen.

so really, these convos are moot. bcos voss is good as gone in summer when we don't make the 8

I’m not convinced it is the list.
I find it hard to believe so many players, many of whom we know are good players, are playing so badly (executing their skills so badly).
When McRae was appointed, IIRC, most of the footy world thought the Pies were a bottom 8 list (maybe even bottom 4). McRae was even panned when he directed them to keep playing attacking footy even when they were getting well beaten in a game because, he said, that’s how we want to play.
I think with a better game plan, that players understand better, everyone knows where to run and when and where to kick the ball. And these kicks, in a good game plan, don’t rely so much on absolute precision but allow for margin of error e.g. kicking to an open space for a teammate to run into. When this happens, the skills look much better, and the players all look much better and there is less reliance on the bottom 6 and also less reliance on individual moments of brilliance.
I think Voss is generally a strong leader of men but the game plan and/or assistants needs to change. If not Voss himself.
I very much hope that Graeme Wright pulls the right reign because there will be a lot of people with varying opinions in his ear. And, like on TC, most of these opinions are valid. But not all the solutions will work.

I just watched a replay of the so called incident, and from the TV he definitely doesn't direct the entire spray at Binns, I actually think the issue is that Binns was standing directly in front of him and was brave enough to meet Voss's gaze directly, so it "seems" like it was directed at Binns, but that's a brief moment in the entire act.

Yeah it's the players fault...

The same players recruited by our recruiters (based on game plan needs), developed and coached (bomb, bomb, bomb) by our coaches...

...it's all the players fault I tells ya.

After 4 years we've regressed into nomansland... a complete football department failure.

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

it really doesn't matter.

next time (and there will be a next time) voss needs to stand in front of cripps and direct all that emotion his way. not an 8 gamer.

easy kill etc etc

Hindsight rocks and with it I’d have traded Harry last year as some have/had suggested. We could have kept our picks for this year and probably still landed Jagga, and got a more dynamic experienced player too.

We’re in a bind, we’ve got no draft capital, what we do have is probably tied to the FS/academy, and some damaged goods.

We can also neither afford to keep nor lose TDK.

So, if we’re not in ‘win now’ mode, and there’s question marks around Voss’ capabilities as a senior coach, do you still want to persevere?

Loosing TDK is no big deal as long as we get good compo. If we can balance the list and get the right game plan it won't matter whether we have TDK or O'Brien as first ruck