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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 6:18 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Voss wants to be the players mates too much is my feel.

That's why they keep putting in putrid efforts, they feel too safe.

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I don't think that is true.
Going by what he has said over the past couple of weeks I think you'll find the following is more correct:
1. Big changes to zones cause instability and there is no way to measure improvement/failure in their systems.
2. He wants to give the defence time to gel as they have only been playing as a unit for 4 games.
3. Incremental changes are his preferred choice to measure what will and wont work with this playing group.

To be honest it is the right way to go about it from a statistical and probability stand point.
Coupled with the fact we have 0 depth, he doesn't really have a choice.
Like some have already said, he inherited a relatively poor list and has made lemonade out of lemons, but there are still too many lemons.
And Austin and co, have not really set the world alight with bringing in mature depth or quality when our window was open.
Like I've said for 3+ years, we needed to add mature class to our midfield but instead, last year we put 2 drafts hope on an 18 year old kid.
This is beyond poor list management, if we traded in another older player like a Jack Macrae to settle the midfield and help the kids we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

His job is to be a parental figure, mate, best friend, etc to get players to believe a story, play together as a group and get the best out of them.
But going by his presser on Thursday, he won't be having too many mates for awhile unless they start performing.
However the risk is and as we know, Carlton players go to water when the going gets tough because they know we will sack the coach instead of them.
Time to change the narrative.
Had a chat with an ex player of ours recently, and he agreed with me, resoundingly.

The lack of accountability in selection highlights this, regardless of depth.

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I still find it hard to believe given the kind of player he was.
But I'm not inside the 4 walls so I'll take your word for it.
Maybe he's afraid of losing the players?

An effect of failure, so to speak, from his Brisbane coaching days.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 6:27 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Lace Out wrote:
Maybe he's afraid of losing the players?

An effect of failure, so to speak, from his Brisbane coaching days.

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Possibly.
It is a performance based industry and it would only make sense putting your best players out there even if they are having a rough patch.
That alone could be seen as favouritism.
It's also the reality of our depth, or lack of it.
If we had players knocking down the door things might not be so comfortable for the ones seemingly taking the piss.

Dropping Acres, McLovin and Doc this weekend would send a message to the rest of the team.
But it might cause a ripple effect if they are all too disgruntled, a catch 22 situation for the coach.
Voss is a champion of players playing back into form, something he would've seen and done as a player.
However, that is all good if you are winning games and we are not.
Without knowing what is being said inside the club I guess we can only assume what the rational is based on rumours and what we see.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:47 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Maybe he's afraid of losing the players?

An effect of failure, so to speak, from his Brisbane coaching days.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Possibly.
It is a performance based industry and it would only make sense putting your best players out there even if they are having a rough patch.
That alone could be seen as favouritism.
It's also the reality of our depth, or lack of it.
If we had players knocking down the door things might not be so comfortable for the ones seemingly taking the piss.

Dropping Acres, McLovin and Doc this weekend would send a message to the rest of the team.
But it might cause a ripple effect if they are all too disgruntled, a catch 22 situation for the coach.
Voss is a champion of players playing back into form, something he would've seen and done as a player.
However, that is all good if you are winning games and we are not.
Without knowing what is being said inside the club I guess we can only assume what the rational is based on rumours and what we see.


If there's good reason for players to be dropped, that's all Vossy has to give them. They're all grown ups. They have KPIs. They know the stats, more than us, and the video doesn't lie.

If it causes ripples, we are better off without them come years/ contracts end.

IMO we need to think change. Best way is to create change. We dont have to rip out any of the core performers.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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if voss is remotely serious, doc won't play again. give him a coaching role and call it a day.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 10:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Lace Out wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Voss wants to be the players mates too much is my feel.

That's why they keep putting in putrid efforts, they feel too safe.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

I don't think that is true.
Going by what he has said over the past couple of weeks I think you'll find the following is more correct:
1. Big changes to zones cause instability and there is no way to measure improvement/failure in their systems.
2. He wants to give the defence time to gel as they have only been playing as a unit for 4 games.
3. Incremental changes are his preferred choice to measure what will and wont work with this playing group.

To be honest it is the right way to go about it from a statistical and probability stand point.
Coupled with the fact we have 0 depth, he doesn't really have a choice.
Like some have already said, he inherited a relatively poor list and has made lemonade out of lemons, but there are still too many lemons.
And Austin and co, have not really set the world alight with bringing in mature depth or quality when our window was open.
Like I've said for 3+ years, we needed to add mature class to our midfield but instead, last year we put 2 drafts hope on an 18 year old kid.
This is beyond poor list management, if we traded in another older player like a Jack Macrae to settle the midfield and help the kids we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

His job is to be a parental figure, mate, best friend, etc to get players to believe a story, play together as a group and get the best out of them.
But going by his presser on Thursday, he won't be having too many mates for awhile unless they start performing.
However the risk is and as we know, Carlton players go to water when the going gets tough because they know we will sack the coach instead of them.
Time to change the narrative.
Had a chat with an ex player of ours recently, and he agreed with me, resoundingly.

The lack of accountability in selection highlights this, regardless of depth.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

I still find it hard to believe given the kind of player he was.
But I'm not inside the 4 walls so I'll take your word for it.
Maybe he's afraid of losing the players?

An effect of failure, so to speak, from his Brisbane coaching days.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


Can anyone sit here and say the same about Chris Scott, Hardwick, Lyon or Clarkson, etc.?
I think Voss needs to stand up and tell them who is boss, if not, then he will get thrown out due to the players taking charge and if that is happening, then we will never be successful, ever again.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:05 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy wrote:
if voss is remotely serious, doc won't play again. give him a coaching role and call it a day.


Easily said, unrealistic and unnecessary.
What does it prove? What's the benefit?

Its not OK for those not writing off the season after 4 rounds. We want our best team selected every week, based on those available.

Whu I think its a throw away line? We have no depth, to call it a day.
That's the problem created when Austin didn't replace like for like replacements for our delisted injury prone players.

I'm OK dropping Doc, and definitely not retiring him altogether, but it would have to be after players who have offered far less than Doc this year to make any sense to me:

Gov ... Carroll, no brainer
Motlop ... Durdin comes in
Fogarty ... Hollands comes in
Moir ... Cottrell, no brainer
Acres ... prefer Ollie there and Doc going back

I don't mind getting midfield games into Lord. He's got his game at a reasonable level to develop in the AFL.

I prefer Lucas to get use to playing against mature bodies and developing his composure and foot passing in the VFL, before any "unnecessary" promotion. Ditto Ben.

We need to develop kids properly in the VFL whilst we can imo Doc gives us something on field ahead of the abovementioned whilst protecting the kids from the next weight division. Both twins need to develop their game. I'm OK if they are selected ahead of Acres if Power believes it is time for their further development and Voss feels its good for the team to do this.

The rest of the kids are nowhere near ready, and we don't need to see the return of Evans.

So, yeah, by all means drop Doc, but there's other more pertinent changes needed, especially to those who have been gifted games this year (I've listed above)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 11:39 am 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Maybe he's afraid of losing the players?

An effect of failure, so to speak, from his Brisbane coaching days.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Possibly.
It is a performance based industry and it would only make sense putting your best players out there even if they are having a rough patch.
That alone could be seen as favouritism.
It's also the reality of our depth, or lack of it.
If we had players knocking down the door things might not be so comfortable for the ones seemingly taking the piss.

Dropping Acres, McLovin and Doc this weekend would send a message to the rest of the team.
But it might cause a ripple effect if they are all too disgruntled, a catch 22 situation for the coach.
Voss is a champion of players playing back into form, something he would've seen and done as a player.
However, that is all good if you are winning games and we are not.
Without knowing what is being said inside the club I guess we can only assume what the rational is based on rumours and what we see.


If there's good reason for players to be dropped, that's all Vossy has to give them. They're all grown ups. They have KPIs. They know the stats, more than us, and the video doesn't lie.

If it causes ripples, we are better off without them come years/ contracts end.

IMO we need to think change. Best way is to create change. We dont have to rip out any of the core performers.

I agree, it's a good chance to see if the tail is wagging the dog.
But will it happen?
If history proves anything, then unlikely.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Does anyone think it would cause problematic angst for the club, or team cohesion if Gov, Motlop and Fogarty are demoted this week?

Does it really impede us from winning our first game of the year? That's 4 outs with injured Cowan.

We've got McKay, Carroll and probably Cottrell coming in. They're 2 bonafide replacements. One a star.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Wrong thread

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Last edited by bondiblue on Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Wrong thread

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:55 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
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Unless I'm lost, this is the Voss coaching thread?
I'm intrigued that there is not one post since we won our last two games...
The win against the Weagles, though large, was full of flaws.

The North game was proper footy. It looks like the balance of the team was better, especially with Young actually showing something.
The backline is knitting together better and JSoS is a huge part of that improvement.
I'm glad Voss and the rest of us got some nourishment.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:09 am 
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Craig Bradley
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BigGartos wrote:
Unless I'm lost, this is the Voss coaching thread?
I'm intrigued that there is not one post since we won our last two games...
The win against the Weagles, though large, was full of flaws.

The North game was proper footy. It looks like the balance of the team was better, especially with Young actually showing something.
The backline is knitting together better and JSoS is a huge part of that improvement.
I'm glad Voss and the rest of us got some nourishment.

Sent from my SM-A556E using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more.
Voss is finally getting all the pieces to line up.
Dropping Doc was a great move and hopefully others are put on alert that no one is safe.
It has been handy having Durdin and Elijah back in the team.
But more importantly it was great to see the team starting to gel and run out a game.

The big test is this weekend on how much the team has turned around.
Either way as I've said before, it's been more the players than Voss the way we started this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:23 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Thank heavens Clarko turned down our millions....


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:51 am 
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formerly Fevola

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He is not off the chain yet - for me.

Buck stops with him how we started the season. Him and the coaching staff. We looked unhappy on the field and hesistant. What have we been doing the whole pre-season. ? And the rot started in the second half of last year.

So a few wins against low teams hasnt changed things. It has released the valve somewhat, but we have a few tough games coming up. This is the real test.

We have clearly changed the way we play in the last few weeks. We are taking the game on more and attacking more offensively.

Not how we started.

Jury is still out and he is not off the hook.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:23 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Drewgirl wrote:
He is not off the chain yet - for me.

Buck stops with him how we started the season. Him and the coaching staff. We looked unhappy on the field and hesistant. What have we been doing the whole pre-season. ? And the rot started in the second half of last year.

So a few wins against low teams hasnt changed things. It has released the valve somewhat, but we have a few tough games coming up. This is the real test.

We have clearly changed the way we play in the last few weeks. We are taking the game on more and attacking more offensively.

Not how we started.

Jury is still out and he is not off the hook.


Agree. 2 wins against the bottom 2 teams doesn't get our season back on track, but it gives us the platform to get our season back on track. The manner of the wins was impressive, but we need to show we can maintain the standard when the pressure is on.

The next 5 games before the bye is the real test. All against teams that are potentially rivals for top 8. We have to go 3-2 at a minimum. That would get us back to 5-6 going into the bye. Any less than that and I can't see us making finals. If we can go 4-1 then we're well and truly back in the hunt. If we were to go 5-0 the lid would be off.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:52 pm 
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I was brought up with the saying ‘if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all’.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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this weekend is a big one for voss and co.

historically with players making themselves available, voss will tunr his back on the 22 who did a job and played hard on the weekend. he'll shuffle around the balance (bringing in a tall in place of a runner) and we invariably lose - in fact in 3 seasons we have only not lost once when voss does this. the gws game last year when pittonet came back, and we dropped a small so tdk could rest forward.

if he selects harry and we keep young, look for if we can still apply the manic pressure, if we run out of legs in the 4th (due everyone having to run further over the first 3 qtrs to cover for an extra tall etc) and get chased down

in 3 years with a full squad to chose from, not once (imo) has voss made the right calls for personnel and team balance.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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to take it one step further, our best winning run - that 9 game win streak in 2023 - was brought about be necessity of what was left on the list who could play, rather than it was brought about by anything voss coached.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:53 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Braithy wrote:
to take it one step further, our best winning run - that 9 game win streak in 2023 - was brought about be necessity of what was left on the list who could play, rather than it was brought about by anything voss coached.


Absolutely. We were forced to play small ball and with the season in the bin we through caution to the wind and played run and gun. Can't understand why we seemingly didn't learn any lessons from that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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DesEnglish wrote:
I was brought up with the saying ‘if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all’.


Reality bites.


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