Haynes seemed like an ok get but I think blind freddy now knows its been a bad romance. You can't win them all but we sure seem to have lost plenty recently.

With the millions playing the game there is not a handful of up and coming mofos with blistering speed and pretty decent disposal out there? Yet we go traditional forward pocket.? And I'm more having a crack at Evans than white. Surely list management has to also take into account the trend or future trend of the game. Its been all about speeding up the game and you'd say maybe Williams and saad have some blistering speed but that isn't going so well at the moment.

I know it was raining Thursday but thinking carlton are now the wet track specialist.

And just for a bit of interest i was talking to a good friend when Oliver burst on the scene many years back. He said yeah, but sure does turn the ball over at times. The greats just seem to be able to evolve their game through the various trends and at least be solid contributers

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If this is true, how the hell was he allowed to go all in on Jagga Smith the way he did?

I totally feel everyone's frustration. I'm frustrated.

I'm frustrated with the players and in particular instructive leadership.
I'm frustrated Vossy doesn't adapt to circumstances in the field.
I'm frustrated we are all not on the same page when we go into battle.
I'm frustrated by the mental fragility of the players; something we dont see in 18yo's.

Optimists vs Pessimists? That's a game.
The best game for me is Probability and potential. Looking at new ways to improve.

I will call BS when I read or hear it, and I will put a line through a player if I see it fit.
Listening to know it alls with hindsight as their proof is not helpful
Putting a line through a player says they wont make it, no hope, no future.
Suggesting our window is shut after 4 rounds is such a throw away line.

I do not believe our window is closed, with 4 rounds down.

I hope the return of Harry and Elijah will add 2 players with bountiful talent whose desire is to help their mates off the canvas.
I hope we find our run and dare. I think it needs to come from players and coach.
I hope Vossy changes his one dirstion plan, and shows some creativity. I don't care whose idea it is.
I hope to see Cincotta and Cottrell bring their speed to the team like they did last year and the year before when we hit rare form.

Our fate may turn around this year, and we may even enjoy what turns out to be a good season, similar to 2023. WE just need a few things to change for the better. Every stakeholder knows what that is. I expect a lot of change in the next month.

But, list management is a separate issue imo. List management for me is about looking at what is and what can be. Probability, Possibility and Potential.

List Management is a conundrum. We are at crossroads with our list.

Next year we 20 contracts expiring (adding Evans, Carroll and Charleson to list of 17)
This means around $6M salary space. There may even be some savings made by banking some of the cap over 95% spend. Call it $8M
The following year we have 13 contracts expiring.

Problem I see, is we can target players of need with lucrative offers, but we haven't got Draft picks to Trade. We don't need a first rounder for, but definitely need latter picks for Dean, Ison, Gresham, Allan and Clark. We have too many kids on our list and not enough depth.

I hope Austin and Agresta have a plan to balance the list.

I do not believe any ruckman is worth $1M unless they kick goals, or they can play KPF too and kick goals when rotating there.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

The Board should have banned us trading with GWS years ago. The list of failures would be frightening…

I don't mind the Smith trade. Lots of bad luck since then....the problem is what we've done outside of that.

Depth/class.

Look at Freo. Add Bolton AND Murphy Reid. They've managed their cap and picks in a way that has allowed them to bring in a classy half forward/part time mid and a quality kid.

Will be interesting to see if TDK goes. Lots of premierships have been won over the years with 'spuddy'/average rucks.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

a ruck just has to be competitive and make a contest. be mobile and skilled enough (this immediately rules out pittonet) to bob up for a mark around the ground (espesh out of defense as that release valve down the line).

the pies ruck, i thought, destroyed tdk in the 3rd and 4th qtr.


if shipped cripps off to freo, we could probably keep tdk on good money. tdk is a contested beast, and bring in some run and outside quality into the midfield to balance it out. right now it's a mess. tdk, cripps, walsh and hewett are all inside mids. there is no outside quality.

i can't work out which cfc element is worse right now.

lack of outside mids.
F50 entry
run and dash and penetration off halfback.

they are three really big things to have to resolve midseason.

like i said first we had sos ( who now is a genius at the saints ) and now Austin over many many years our weakness has been we are to SLOW , our mids all one pace and our HBF we have ageing saad we need 3 players with saad pace so who does Austin Bring ?

This club never learns

We should have realised by now that the better clubs regenerate constantly and don’t sit on their laurels when assessing their lists

We have relied on too few for the last 25 years

Having an elite 6 - 8 players counts for little if their is a distinct lack of depth

Our seconds have been embarrassing for a long time and is a good indicator of the health of a list

I called for a rebuild after Teague was sacked because I could see that our list was unbalanced and we relied to much on our top 6 players. It was a fools paradise.

I actually won’t mind losing DeKoning for an early draft pick as we don’t have a first round draft pick and he is not worth what St Kilda are offering. We need to rebuild so you have to start somewhere. Thus includes fixing our woeful player and game development.

We have tried to fill out depth with experienced and depth players, though. I see the likes of Saad, Acres, Gov, Williams, Haynes, Martin, Fogarty, Fantasia, Boyd, Cincotta etc. as part of the plan. But it just hasn't gone as hoped, because too many of these players either weren't good enough or couldn't stay fit. This season is the first we've gone backwards in depth, by sacrificing ever present contributors like Kennedy and Owies, jettisoning the least reliable fitness-wise like Martin, Cuningham and Marchbank, replacing them with Haynes and draft picks. I wouldn't say we've rested on laurels, but I would say that this year we've fallen between bar stools, not really committing to a flag push nor a rebuild. Hence the frustration and fear of a wasted season.

i worry that there is a rep throughout the league among those types - that carlton is an easy payday for a semi-retired lifestyle. saad and acres are the only ones who have played for our jersey. the rest are conditional bordering onto thieves.

culturally within the club, we haven't been right since the sal-cap debacle. we had a small sniff of change in the 2023 season, but by 2025 we're firmly back at it. key players like walsh, fronting channel 10 news with it's not voss, it's us. it's all a well worn path at cfc.

Boyd and Cincotta have gone allright for us too. They address speed and good football skills, at the cost of an ice cream.

WE just haven't done enough to give us good depth and speed. Part of the reason for this is because we carried risky passengers for too long ie injury prone players, GWS discards, Geelong rejects ...

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

... seeing that draft order pic afl posted to facebook makes me feel genuinely ill.

we don't have a 1st rounder, and looking at the hawks. top of the table and the number 3 pick.


the term "shitting the bed" just doesn't encapsulate what we've done ...

This is where the Jagga injury has not only impacted on field but also hurt the psyche of the supporter base. Yes it's annoying that Hawthorn have our pick but if we had evidence of Jagga's ability right in front of us each week I'm sure it wouldn't feel so bad.

We still got a damn good player

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#DonTheStash

Look at the Carlton contract tracker stickied at the top of this forum!

So many deadwood list cloggers still contracted until 2026

Efficient F50 entries have been a killer for years and run and penetration off half back has been diabolical this year. Maybe the decision to trade for pick 3 (jagger) rather than get Houston was a sign that the hierarchy believe we need to regenerate the list because as it is we are not good enough.

i

Is it development then? I want a huge fan of SOS drafting, but they couldn't have all been so bad

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my last one was rubbish

I sometimes think we have recruited for a style of play that has passed by whereas other teams seem to recruit for where the game is going. Our midfielders are just too slow on the spread compared to other teams.

The guy on my blue heaven despite cracking eggs on his face is very good at explaining the problems the club has
In relation to to our VFL team it’s a basket case
The players who arnt AfL listed players playing in the VFL prefer to play at a stand alone club
This is because they want to feel like they are at a proper footy club
Case in point
Some guy he mentioned played really well for us in the ruck a few weeks ago
Hudson O’Keefe comes back and this guy goes back to play Montmorency
So players who are decent and mature age would rather play for stand alone clubs like Werribee Southport Port Melbourne
Therefore guys like Wilson and Lemmey play with blokes their age so they get pumped

Has the club addressed this
No
It needs to but as usual it focuses on on the star product

Then wouldn't all affiliated VFL teams have the same issue? Not just Carlton!

If you look at the 9 affiliated VFL clubs to the 9 AFL Melbourne clubs they averaged 8 wins in 18 games in 2024
Don’t count Geelong because they pool from their local area
Also in 2024 the Crows and Port went crap
The Eagles were putrid in the twos
Peel Thunder won the flag but like Geelong have the advantage of pooling from their local area local area in this Case Mandurah
If I was a recruiter at an AFL club I would definitely have someone attend games at Werribee Southport and Peel Thunder