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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 9:47 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Voss wants to be the players mates too much is my feel.

That's why they keep putting in putrid efforts, they feel too safe.

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I don't think that is true.
Going by what he has said over the past couple of weeks I think you'll find the following is more correct:
1. Big changes to zones cause instability and there is no way to measure improvement/failure in their systems.
2. He wants to give the defence time to gel as they have only been playing as a unit for 4 games.
3. Incremental changes are his preferred choice to measure what will and wont work with this playing group.

To be honest it is the right way to go about it from a statistical and probability stand point.
Coupled with the fact we have 0 depth, he doesn't really have a choice.
Like some have already said, he inherited a relatively poor list and has made lemonade out of lemons, but there are still too many lemons.
And Austin and co, have not really set the world alight with bringing in mature depth or quality when our window was open.
Like I've said for 3+ years, we needed to add mature class to our midfield but instead, last year we put 2 drafts hope on an 18 year old kid.
This is beyond poor list management, if we traded in another older player like a Jack Macrae to settle the midfield and help the kids we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

His job is to be a parental figure, mate, best friend, etc to get players to believe a story, play together as a group and get the best out of them.
But going by his presser on Thursday, he won't be having too many mates for awhile unless they start performing.
However the risk is and as we know, Carlton players go to water when the going gets tough because they know we will sack the coach instead of them.
Time to change the narrative.
Had a chat with an ex player of ours recently, and he agreed with me, resoundingly.

The lack of accountability in selection highlights this, regardless of depth.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 10:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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i think voss has far too many strategic (well, lack of them) deficiencies to be a head coach. no plan b to turn to. no way of setting up defensively to stop the absurd momentum shifts against & run-ons of 4-5-6 goals we have constantly given up over 3 seasons

we have no discernible gameplan after 3 seasons. he has failed to address our league worst defensive stoppages. we still mash the ball onto foot and hoof it all over the ground. F50 entry is appalling, and not afl standard. we still rely on the individual, over system; which after 3 seasons is diabolical.

these are huge elephants in the room.

list management hasn't helped him. the team isn't balanced - too much cap spent on replication. but wright will also address that. wright needs to take to the list with a flamethrower at season end. but just as importantly, we need a new voice as head coach and some new sets of eyes in the line coaches box. imo


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 7:43 am 
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https://www.afl.com.au/video/1294147/tr ... go-too-far

Watch the discussion/vision from 17 minutes 14 seconds.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:02 am 
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Ken Hunter
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During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


Last edited by SurreyBlue on Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:17 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Effes wrote:
https://www.afl.com.au/video/1294147/trsf-vision-exposes-blues-big-issue-did-suns-antics-go-too-far

Watch the discussion/vision from 17 minutes 14 seconds.


At the very end there, they say Collingwood may appeal the Houston suspension. It would be the icing on the cake if he got away with that, there's absolutely no defence. Even our KC all stars couldn't do anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:26 am 
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Ken Hunter
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SurreyBlue wrote:
.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


Our midfielders outscored our forwards 5.3 to 1.6 on Thursday (0.1 rushed). If there was one positive from the game, it's that the midfield finally had scoreboard impact. Just a pity it came at the cost of the forwards contributing any-bloody-thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:07 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:44 am 
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Craig Bradley
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SurreyBlue wrote:
During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.



that would be coaching - instructed not to get too deep and forgo defensive responsibility? i think watching him play, ollie is given instructions on the wing, not to venture into the front half - even when opportunity is in front of him, you watch him stop and stand on his imaginary line he's told not to cross.

... and that is the problem. voss has a defensive mindset, and a stoppage and win the contest mindset. which is all fantastic. the problem is he cheats. he sends an extra player into the stoppage to win it, (and they send that opposing player back. so they allow us to win it, and know they will have no one forward to execute and craft a goal from the won contest).

the good defensive teams are that way due to structure. structure makes the personnel (imo). our defense is brought about bcos we send a winger back and tell him not to get forward, we tell halfbacks not to overlap bcos we need you back if we turn it over. flooding the back 50 isn't good defense over the duration, bcos (as we see game in, game out) when it really matters we give up easy goals bcos the system isn't there, and the players have been caught out, up the ground as we need to risk more due to scoreboard pressue.

run and dare, i still think is our best tactic. playing fast seems to suit our players. in the past when we've done it, their ball use is better and their efficiency is better when they're playing fast, running more and thinking less.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:50 am 
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Ken Hunter
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GreatEx wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


Our midfielders outscored our forwards 5.3 to 1.6 on Thursday (0.1 rushed). If there was one positive from the game, it's that the midfield finally had scoreboard impact. Just a pity it came at the cost of the forwards contributing any-bloody-thing.


Have a look at the our 4 games in total. Hewett and Ollie kicked 2 each on Thursday, which was better, yet Walsh, Cerra, Cripps, Acres have one each for the year. Just not good enough after 4 games.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:53 am 
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Craig Bradley
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... and if you want to take it back even further. last season our mids were among the least productive in the league and 2 were ranked top 5 in the league for worst ball use inside 50

we've been bad for a very long time under voss.

even the winning streaks and famous victories are starting to look like an outlier, rather than a norm.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:18 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Braithy wrote:
..

even the winning streaks and famous victories are starting to look like an outlier, rather than a norm.


Here we go again.

We have more wins than losses under Voss, so it's even more untrue to say 12 losses in 14 is more representative than a 9 game win streak.

The truth is that we are a wildly mercurial team - in the true sense of the word, not the bastardised AFL usage - with the mean result being slightly above average.

But I wholeheartedly agree that that is well below the mean level we would have expected given the assets at our disposal.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:23 am 
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GreatEx wrote:
Braithy wrote:
..

even the winning streaks and famous victories are starting to look like an outlier, rather than a norm.


Here we go again.

We have more wins than losses under Voss, so it's even more untrue to say 12 losses in 14 is more representative than a 9 game win streak.

The truth is that we are a wildly mercurial team - in the true sense of the word, not the bastardised AFL usage - with the mean result being slightly above average.

But I wholeheartedly agree that that is well below the mean level we would have expected given the assets at our disposal.



i think you'll find we're just about .500 under voss now? nearly won the same as we've lost. and at some point this season, we will be in the red on that ledger. watching crows and suns. two more teams which have overtaken us. we find out if norf have in a fortnight. that only leaves eagles under us (pending next weekend, i guess).

2023 was a wild old ride... but it's looking like the high tide mark under voss.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:43 am 
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Bruce Comben

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Was never a fan of Voss coming in, but looking at our list of assistants, I’m not sure they’re bringing much tactical nous in planning or on game day.
If we’re 0 and 11 or something similarly dreadful, we’ll probably see Voss forced out.
If we’re seeing some improvement though, I’d give him til the end of the year and see if re-shuffling assistant coaches will help. I’d be moving Hamill, Russell and Clarke out immediately. Our midfield is too one-dimensional and we need some fresh ideas.
Move Power in as midfield coach - he’s got nothing to work with in the VFL. I’d probably ditch Greaves too - no prior knowledge but given he’s assisted Voss for about 10 yrs you wonder if he’s a yes man.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:15 pm 
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https://www.afl.com.au/news/1295762/sec ... s-fadeouts

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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SurreyBlue wrote:
During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by the lack of connection.
Our team trained the whole off season with a forward line of Harry, Kemp, Fantasia, Elijah, Cottrell, Fogarty, Motlop.
Get to round 1 and Harry has checked out, Elijah and Fantasia (who supply the class and foot skills) are gone and Motlop can't get near it.
So we are playing with a key forward who didn't have a pre-season, another who is a key back/VFL standard player and fill ins.
We could have used TDK as a competing resting ruck but that went out the window when Pitto and Skull got injured. So the cupboard is bloody bare!

We were a poor defensive side last year and the coaches have reversed that. We've gone from being in the worst couple of teams conceding scores to one of the better ones. Despite losing our runner up B&F/best medium defender before the season.
Offensively we're struggling badly but we have no forwards!
Get Elijah back in, Harry when he's in a decent head space, some miles in Charlie's legs and Cottrell/Durdin (who I believe is potentially our best small forward) and hopefully Fantasia and we'll have a forward line that can kick goals. Like its did last year.

I don't understand the theories on blowing up the list. A look at the VFL shows we have young talent coming through in O'Farrell, Campo's, Carroll, O'Keefe (who everyone forgets has just turned 20!) and Jagga as a new recruit next year with Peter Deans boy and our youngsters are looking good IMO.

Judge the coaches when we actually have some forwards.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:58 pm 
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Dieselkernahan wrote:
Was never a fan of Voss coming in, but looking at our list of assistants, I’m not sure they’re bringing much tactical nous in planning or on game day.
If we’re 0 and 11 or something similarly dreadful, we’ll probably see Voss forced out.
If we’re seeing some improvement though, I’d give him til the end of the year and see if re-shuffling assistant coaches will help. I’d be moving Hamill, Russell and Clarke out immediately. Our midfield is too one-dimensional and we need some fresh ideas.
Move Power in as midfield coach - he’s got nothing to work with in the VFL. I’d probably ditch Greaves too - no prior knowledge but given he’s assisted Voss for about 10 yrs you wonder if he’s a yes man.



Wouldn't our John Barker lite in Brad Lloyd (General Manager of Football) have some control our lack lustre group of assistants - hope Graeme Wright cleans house and soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by the lack of connection.
Our team trained the whole off season with a forward line of Harry, Kemp, Fantasia, Elijah, Cottrell, Fogarty, Motlop.
Get to round 1 and Harry has checked out, Elijah and Fantasia (who supply the class and foot skills) are gone and Motlop can't get near it.
So we are playing with a key forward who didn't have a pre-season, another who is a key back/VFL standard player and fill ins.
We could have used TDK as a competing resting ruck but that went out the window when Pitto and Skull got injured. So the cupboard is bloody bare!

We were a poor defensive side last year and the coaches have reversed that. We've gone from being in the worst couple of teams conceding scores to one of the better ones. Despite losing our runner up B&F/best medium defender before the season.
Offensively we're struggling badly but we have no forwards!
Get Elijah back in, Harry when he's in a decent head space, some miles in Charlie's legs and Cottrell/Durdin (who I believe is potentially our best small forward) and hopefully Fantasia and we'll have a forward line that can kick goals. Like its did last year.

I don't understand the theories on blowing up the list. A look at the VFL shows we have young talent coming through in O'Farrell, Campo's, Carroll, O'Keefe (who everyone forgets has just turned 20!) and Jagga as a new recruit next year with Peter Deans boy and our youngsters are looking good IMO.

Judge the coaches when we actually have some forwards.


Agree - blowing up the list is just rubbish talk. I’m always been the ‘ we have the cattle to be successful ‘.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by the lack of connection.
Our team trained the whole off season with a forward line of Harry, Kemp, Fantasia, Elijah, Cottrell, Fogarty, Motlop.
Get to round 1 and Harry has checked out, Elijah and Fantasia (who supply the class and foot skills) are gone and Motlop can't get near it.
So we are playing with a key forward who didn't have a pre-season, another who is a key back/VFL standard player and fill ins.
We could have used TDK as a competing resting ruck but that went out the window when Pitto and Skull got injured. So the cupboard is bloody bare!

We were a poor defensive side last year and the coaches have reversed that. We've gone from being in the worst couple of teams conceding scores to one of the better ones. Despite losing our runner up B&F/best medium defender before the season.
Offensively we're struggling badly but we have no forwards!
Get Elijah back in, Harry when he's in a decent head space, some miles in Charlie's legs and Cottrell/Durdin (who I believe is potentially our best small forward) and hopefully Fantasia and we'll have a forward line that can kick goals. Like its did last year.

I don't understand the theories on blowing up the list. A look at the VFL shows we have young talent coming through in O'Farrell, Campo's, Carroll, O'Keefe (who everyone forgets has just turned 20!) and Jagga as a new recruit next year with Peter Deans boy and our youngsters are looking good IMO.

Judge the coaches when we actually have some forwards.


Your deluded


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Lace Out wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Voss wants to be the players mates too much is my feel.

That's why they keep putting in putrid efforts, they feel too safe.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

I don't think that is true.
Going by what he has said over the past couple of weeks I think you'll find the following is more correct:
1. Big changes to zones cause instability and there is no way to measure improvement/failure in their systems.
2. He wants to give the defence time to gel as they have only been playing as a unit for 4 games.
3. Incremental changes are his preferred choice to measure what will and wont work with this playing group.

To be honest it is the right way to go about it from a statistical and probability stand point.
Coupled with the fact we have 0 depth, he doesn't really have a choice.
Like some have already said, he inherited a relatively poor list and has made lemonade out of lemons, but there are still too many lemons.
And Austin and co, have not really set the world alight with bringing in mature depth or quality when our window was open.
Like I've said for 3+ years, we needed to add mature class to our midfield but instead, last year we put 2 drafts hope on an 18 year old kid.
This is beyond poor list management, if we traded in another older player like a Jack Macrae to settle the midfield and help the kids we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

His job is to be a parental figure, mate, best friend, etc to get players to believe a story, play together as a group and get the best out of them.
But going by his presser on Thursday, he won't be having too many mates for awhile unless they start performing.
However the risk is and as we know, Carlton players go to water when the going gets tough because they know we will sack the coach instead of them.
Time to change the narrative.
Had a chat with an ex player of ours recently, and he agreed with me, resoundingly.

The lack of accountability in selection highlights this, regardless of depth.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

I still find it hard to believe given the kind of player he was.
But I'm not inside the 4 walls so I'll take your word for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
During the game, we were highlighting how we just have little composure or understanding of when to go and not to go and connection into our F50. Just so bloody obvious.

The other very important point I feel needs addressing, our midfielders have not hit the scoreboard. Very obvious they aren’t running deep enough to impact.


I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by the lack of connection.
Our team trained the whole off season with a forward line of Harry, Kemp, Fantasia, Elijah, Cottrell, Fogarty, Motlop.
Get to round 1 and Harry has checked out, Elijah and Fantasia (who supply the class and foot skills) are gone and Motlop can't get near it.
So we are playing with a key forward who didn't have a pre-season, another who is a key back/VFL standard player and fill ins.
We could have used TDK as a competing resting ruck but that went out the window when Pitto and Skull got injured. So the cupboard is bloody bare!

We were a poor defensive side last year and the coaches have reversed that. We've gone from being in the worst couple of teams conceding scores to one of the better ones. Despite losing our runner up B&F/best medium defender before the season.
Offensively we're struggling badly but we have no forwards!
Get Elijah back in, Harry when he's in a decent head space, some miles in Charlie's legs and Cottrell/Durdin (who I believe is potentially our best small forward) and hopefully Fantasia and we'll have a forward line that can kick goals. Like its did last year.

I don't understand the theories on blowing up the list. A look at the VFL shows we have young talent coming through in O'Farrell, Campo's, Carroll, O'Keefe (who everyone forgets has just turned 20!) and Jagga as a new recruit next year with Peter Deans boy and our youngsters are looking good IMO.

Judge the coaches when we actually have some forwards.


Your deluded


I think everything put forward by BV are facts. Its exactly what has happened since the season started. Its delusional to dismiss what is fact.

I'd add Ison to the list in 2026 and Walker in 2027

I still think, despite Pitto out injured, and O'Keefe playing his first game in 8-9 weeks, that Young could ruck more to allow TDK to play 3rd KPF and mix things up during the game, whilst also benefiting TDK by avoiding rucking fatigued for long periods.

If Cincotta didn't have the hip op over summer, he would have slotted in perfectly to fill the huge gap Newman's injury has made. Both likely to be back in 3 and 12 weeks time.

There's still the year ahead to improve, and there's no need to write off the season because you say so keogh. That's just stupid, because I, like many others will continue to follow our team with the hope that consideration of the factors responsible for our losses, will be identified and over come. That's not delusional. That's footy. Things turn around when least expected, and can turn, unexpectedly, pretty quick.

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