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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:56 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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redback wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
My concern is that we aren’t fit enough to run games out and hence we revert to kick and hope late in games. The trend this year is alarming.


We have too many players that panic, either perceived or actual

We are no good under pressure. Have a look at our past. We can’t save games, we can’t win games we should be winning, we can’t win games need to win, we give up huge leads in pressure games.

Under pressure we fold which is really sad.


Positive reinforcement redback. Don’t hurt their feelings with such remarks, please.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:57 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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That 3 gamer that towelled us up was taken pick 51. I wonder how long if ever our pick 40 will put in a performance like that

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 2:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Sydney Blue wrote:
That 3 gamer that towelled us up was taken pick 51. I wonder how long if ever our pick 40 will put in a performance like that

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Evans ran him into form………..but yes, it it’s become embarrassing that we continuously want more high picks and completely loose perspective on where the real issues lie.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 4:47 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
redback wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
My concern is that we aren’t fit enough to run games out and hence we revert to kick and hope late in games. The trend this year is alarming.


We have too many players that panic, either perceived or actual

We are no good under pressure. Have a look at our past. We can’t save games, we can’t win games we should be winning, we can’t win games need to win, we give up huge leads in pressure games.

Under pressure we fold which is really sad.


As Sydney Blue would call them "soft cocks".

A big part of the problem is between their ears.

Confusing messages from the box?... possibly.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 5:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
redback wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
My concern is that we aren’t fit enough to run games out and hence we revert to kick and hope late in games. The trend this year is alarming.


We have too many players that panic, either perceived or actual

We are no good under pressure. Have a look at our past. We can’t save games, we can’t win games we should be winning, we can’t win games need to win, we give up huge leads in pressure games.

Under pressure we fold which is really sad.


As Sydney Blue would call them "soft cocks".

A big part of the problem is between their ears.


I can see how having a dick between your ears could be problematic.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:27 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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It may not be the coach but surely someone off field is accountable if the players aren't much chop. Be that the people selecting them in the draft in the first place, list managers, warm and fuzzy dudes, drug dealers, pimps for a quality hookup etc etc

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:26 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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GWS wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
redback wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
My concern is that we aren’t fit enough to run games out and hence we revert to kick and hope late in games. The trend this year is alarming.


We have too many players that panic, either perceived or actual

We are no good under pressure. Have a look at our past. We can’t save games, we can’t win games we should be winning, we can’t win games need to win, we give up huge leads in pressure games.

Under pressure we fold which is really sad.


As Sydney Blue would call them "soft cocks".

A big part of the problem is between their ears.


I can see how having a dick between your ears could be problematic.
Not that there's anything wrong with that

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:29 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Was at a family gathering and haven't seen a second of the game.
Shame Wookie's Carlton only highlights channel was given a take-down notice.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:41 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Lowey_47 wrote:
It may not be the coach but surely someone off field is accountable if the players aren't much chop. Be that the people selecting them in the draft in the first place, list managers, warm and fuzzy dudes, drug dealers, pimps for a quality hookup etc etc

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Jammarra isn't on our list :wink:

SOS followed by Austin are the list managers. SOS is gone. Austin has to pull a rabbit out of his hat end of the year.
Andrew Russell was the S&G boss. He's gone. New regime.
Cook is gone end of the year. Wright takes over.

I think we may have over estimated the value of McGovern, Williams and a few other were fillers

Theres 14 players coming out of contract end of year.
Theres 13 players coming out of contract end of 2026

I'm sure there will be change.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Sydney Blue wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Melbourne beat Gold Coast
The western derby ends in a draw
We will be sitting stone motherless last

They did zero to improve the list in draft and trade period.

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Think you are forgetting Jagger Smith at pick #3. big loss that he's out for the season because what he can bring is a lot of what we are missing in transition and on the outside. classy ball use, speed and agility with the ball in hand.

Tonight we lacked having that spread of eight or nine goal scorers getting their one or two goals each. Our best midfielders have never been prolific scorers or even prolific goal assists at the best of times… Kennedy was one of our more reliable goal kicking, forward entry kicking mids but we ditched him. As for half forwards and small forwards with the Williams injury and no Elijah, Fantasia or Harry it left cupboard was pretty bare. Ling and Malthouse on ABC said every one of Walsh's possessions were garbage touches that had no influence on the game. Acres and Doc used to be play makers on current form they're closer to hot ball butchers.

We did a lot right and Kemp should be celebrated for keeping us in the game multiple times by kicking clutch goals. One of the few who kept his nerve under pressure.
Some posters are unbelievable.
I hear the constant calls for Carroll who has yet to play out a reserves game.
We have seen 1 quarter in a nothing to play for practice game of Jagga and he will be the difference.
How do we know Jagga is not going to be another Paddy Dow

Give these kids a chance before saying they are the difference makers.



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I find it amazing how people like you tell blatant lies and then when called out for lying you move the goal posts. You said we did nothing in the draft or trade. You didn't say we brought sub-par players in, you said we did nothing at all. Classic move from someone whose best form is in shit stirring Blue supporters and rubbishing the entire team.

Pretty sure Jagger was identified by Gettable as a top-5 pick, if you think jagger is likely to be another Paddy Dow that's on you. Campo brothers are also ok by the looks of it, no worse than Acres and Doc are today and with a couple of seasons will run out games better and improve in all facets of their game. I've also bemoaned the lack of picking up an elite KPD in the trade or potential KPD in the draft, and losing a reliable goal kicker and and frequent drought breaker in Owies to get pick #3 but I cant agree that Austin did nothing at all.
Oh so gettable is now the bench mark.
Maybe we just sack the recruitment staff and just pick what the gettable guys say we should

Tell me how is it all working out.

Oh we are 0 -3 for the 8th time in 18 years.

And odds on to end up 0 -4



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a bunch of the Blues first pick players including Walsh remarked on how difficult it was to tackle Jagger Smith in the pre-season. Walsh also observed what a gain it will be in our midfield mix to have some add class and delivery on the outside of contests (not to mention the kid has been a ball magnet in his junior footy, which doesn't always translate to AFL, of course, but his numbers in under-age state and national comp are frankly staggering). once he has played a full season we can revisit your comparison of Jagger and Paddy Dow (who was too much like our existing mids, inside bulls with less than exceptional disposal skills for a start).

Walsh was our speedster with a tank who's delivery and goal kicking ability was "good enough" to earn him player of the 2023 Finals without playing in the GF and the bluebaggers getting killed in the PF. Sadly injury (and allegedly targeting by oppositions to drop the knee in his back whenever possible, if that's true what a horrible comp AFL really is, could be doing him lifelong injury as well as destroying a career of one of the best in his generation). Cerra is becoming an extra and very handy HB interceptor and elite user of the ball going forward, his kicking seems better than the rest of the mids to me (Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50). Would seem Hewitt has become a much more versatile player in last 10 or so AFL games. But I still think Jagger will add something we really don't have in terms of elite midfield class be it after Cripps etc win CBs or rucking contests around the ground to D50 transition into F50. It irks we gave up Owies for Jagger, but Owies is more replaceable, especially if Williams can string a full seasons together (big ask I know).

I don't think we are flag threats at the moment but at the same time I don't think we are bottom four as the ladder would suggest. people need to get some perspective. interestingly Voss finally acknowledged that maybe we can't run out games from a fitness POV in the last post-match presser! That's the first time in 2 years he hasn't dismissed such suggestions from journalists, he usually sights F50 entries or some other stat comparisons to say we are fit enough in 3rd and 4th quarters. But as Braithy has already said in this thread, the heavily contested style we play that suits our best players also means when we get the ball and it's our time to run, carry, and outperform our direct opponents, man on man, we are more tired than our opponents might be due to the all close marking and chasing down we have been doing to that point. Without really detailed stats and analysis, and just comparing time trials etc it's hard to be certain if that is the case, but to the untrained eye I think @Braithy may have a point.

Confidence is certainly a factor. We started this game with a lot of it and the Dogs scragged and out-competed us back to Earth. they even won the CB clearness in the 3rd and 4th IIRC. we won all of the clearance stats (marginally), marking and tackling stats for the game as a whole, Dogs won the possession stats. We certainly appeared to run out of gas according to ABC radio commentators but I"m yet to watch the vision of second half to decide for myself (not sure I want to TBH).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:
Is it time we talk about Walsh and his decline. And the possibility we’ve seen his best as back issues continue to hamper him?

Another #1 pick that got us nowhere.

That’s why I was dead against tanking for high picks. That you have to eventually pay high salaries to

Last year we had the opportunity to trade out Harry. Get some more draft picks and fill the list up with another 3 or 4 high ceiling guys and cut some deadwood out. Spreading the talent is how you build an afl list. Not chasing a young prince with a high pick. It’s a 22 man sport

Docherty should have been offered a coaching role on a medical retirement. There’s a spot opened up. Etc etc


hard to disagree, though I'd hate losing Harry, who else do we trade? TDK, no thanks. Kemp showed that good forwards can be found in the lesser lights, though he benefitted from Dogs being overly-Charlie conscious, which is why it's important that Charlie kicks a goal or two early in each game, it rattles the opposite defence if he's always threatening a 6-goal bag.

I think Kemp should be celebrated for playing his role to a T and holding clutch when most of our KPF would have sprayed it wide.

Get a Gonstead Chiro into the club ASAP, Crippa will need one after the horrible landing on his lower back, he could barely walk for 10 minutes, that has season long back injury written all over it. Walsh could be repaired, but multiple surgeries work against that potential unfortunately, the surgeries themselves, if they are fusing vertebrae or whatever can compromise flexibility and movement for the sake of stability of the spinal alignment. I really hope Walsh can recover his 2023 form, and would happily given him time out to do whatever is required, wy play him if he's so ineffective, it's just sad to watch not just for us, but for him and the playing group.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Both Walsh and Cripps have felt the opposition knees in the back for years now. I’m dirty on the other players for not protecting them and taking these ‘pigs’ to task when it occurs. I’m hopeful Walsh gets through it like Crippa appears to have.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:07 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:

Beverdige allowed us to win stoppage (where we had an extra man) but he cut off the corridor and backed his extra defender (most of the time jones) to intercept/ turnover and then run/ spread hard from the contest and hit us coast to coast

In the first qtr beveridge used more man to man and clogged the flanks which allowed us to look inside and take the corridor. Since we haven’t used the corridor all year this opening took dogs by surprise.

That is by definition, dogs coaching adjusting. And us (Voss) just watching it all unfold and not blink like a deer in the headlights at the oncoming car.


It's unbelievable that in a sport where the best players are commanding salaries north of $1m per season that a coaching team on big-bucks do not anticipate the counter-move type responses from the opposition coaching box. A game played out over 100+ minutes of playing time. There will be many moves and counter moves in any game unless one team feel no need. If you lost the game and felt no need to make changes then you are lost in modern AFL. When you play chess you hope you opponent doesn't see your next three moves at your peril.

When I went to games in the 80s and 90s and we were a consistent 'top of the ladder' team, it was common to see each quarter was a different game inside each game, even parts of quarters would be games within the game of a quarter. We'd have a dominant goto forward or intercept defender or centre bounce idea and the highlights-reel player(s) would tend to change from one quarter to the next.

that was smart, keep the game plan moving along, be predictable enough for forwards to anticipate our ball movement but unpredictable enough that they can't simply sit on a key player to grind our game plan to a halt. It feels like we are getting ground to a halt in the 3rd and 4th quarters when we are in front or right in the contest. If we are simply playing catch up as the oppo relax with a four goal buffer at half time it can make us look better than we are too.

That has to be be partially a fitness issue, surely? I do recall those finals we won in 2023 in the dying moments, no lack of full-match fitness and mental strength in 2023. So we have to also take into account the opposition working us out, across the seasons and within games. We did what it took to win with the same players we have today, largely. Feels like old man time is catching up with a few of them, Acres, Doc, Cottrell, Fog,… Others are younger and still need to build their tanks and stamina for the full four quarter game.

There's one Parko coaching strategy that is an exception to the rule I'm suggesting here, and that was when Blues against the who the Hun liked to call "chess grandmaster" Sheedy who was constantly making changes, if only to try and confuse the opposing coach I suspect.

Parkin just gave each of our starting 18 a man to play on and wherever they went on the ground just to go with them, (e.g. Glenn Manton → James Hird mid, forward, back, wherever just stay with him) . If they came off, our player came of with him. It worked like clockwork and made Sheedy look stupid I thought, which is why I remember it s fondly. Someone here will remember the game, I think it was H&A and I watched from the outer at 'Optus' but not so sure now, so long ago. IIRC Manton had a much better game than Hird that day, he seemed to save his best form for Hird.

Parko was blessed with talent that only money and good connections to SA & WA can recruit, and a rubbery salary cap! We need to adapt to the times. I don't think Tigers were as good a list as the three premierships they won would indicate, I think they changed their game style to take advantage of the rule changes the AFL were introducing to counter the zoning and flooding game plans that had dominated. Their forwards played on at all costs and so won a lot of frees, while opposition defenders were penalised for holding the ball in a way the Tigers forwards and mids were not penalised when forward of the centre square. it just added up to a style that the AFL wanted to reward in the 50/50 umpiring decisions, as so rewarded they were. Of course they had Dusty, some gun mids, and a few very reliable defenders but not a remarkably impressive team c.f. Lions 2024 IMHO.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 7:49 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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diesel95 wrote:
A bunch of the Blues first pick players including Walsh remarked on how difficult it was to tackle Jagger Smith in the pre-season. Walsh also observed what a gain it will be in our midfield mix to have some add class and delivery on the outside of contests (not to mention the kid has been a ball magnet in his junior footy, which doesn't always translate to AFL, of course, but his numbers in under-age state and national comp are frankly staggering). once he has played a full season we can revisit your comparison of Jagger and Paddy Dow (who was too much like our existing mids, inside bulls with less than exceptional disposal skills for a start).

Walsh was our speedster with a tank who's delivery and goal kicking ability was "good enough" to earn him player of the 2023 Finals without playing in the GF and the bluebaggers getting killed in the PF. Sadly injury (and allegedly targeting by oppositions to drop the knee in his back whenever possible, if that's true what a horrible comp AFL really is, could be doing him lifelong injury as well as destroying a career of one of the best in his generation). Cerra is becoming an extra and very handy HB interceptor and elite user of the ball going forward, his kicking seems better than the rest of the mids to me (Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50). Would seem Hewitt has become a much more versatile player in last 10 or so AFL games. But I still think Jagger will add something we really don't have in terms of elite midfield class be it after Cripps etc win CBs or rucking contests around the ground to D50 transition into F50. It irks we gave up Owies for Jagger, but Owies is more replaceable, especially if Williams can string a full seasons together (big ask I know).

I don't think we are flag threats at the moment but at the same time I don't think we are bottom four as the ladder would suggest. people need to get some perspective. interestingly Voss finally acknowledged that maybe we can't run out games from a fitness POV in the last post-match presser! That's the first time in 2 years he hasn't dismissed such suggestions from journalists, he usually sights F50 entries or some other stat comparisons to say we are fit enough in 3rd and 4th quarters. But as Braithy has already said in this thread, the heavily contested style we play that suits our best players also means when we get the ball and it's our time to run, carry, and outperform our direct opponents, man on man, we are more tired than our opponents might be due to the all close marking and chasing down we have been doing to that point. Without really detailed stats and analysis, and just comparing time trials etc it's hard to be certain if that is the case, but to the untrained eye I think @Braithy may have a point.

Confidence is certainly a factor. We started this game with a lot of it and the Dogs scragged and out-competed us back to Earth. they even won the CB clearness in the 3rd and 4th IIRC. we won all of the clearance stats (marginally), marking and tackling stats for the game as a whole, Dogs won the possession stats. We certainly appeared to run out of gas according to ABC radio commentators but I"m yet to watch the vision of second half to decide for myself (not sure I want to TBH).


Obviously there's a lot not working at the moment. But nice to hear some positive reflections. Thanks. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:02 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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diesel95 wrote:
Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50


I thought he was rated dead last in the comp last year on that metric? Either him or Walsh, I forget :D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 5:42 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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GreatEx wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50


I thought he was rated dead last in the comp last year on that metric? Either him or Walsh, I forget :D


Yep.

His photo featured in the report

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 5:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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diesel95 wrote:


a bunch of the Blues first pick players including Walsh remarked on how difficult it was to tackle Jagger Smith in the pre-season. Walsh also observed what a gain it will be in our midfield mix to have some add class and delivery on the outside of contests (not to mention the kid has been a ball magnet in his junior footy, which doesn't always translate to AFL, of course, but his numbers in under-age state and national comp are frankly staggering). once he has played a full season we can revisit your comparison of Jagger and Paddy Dow (who was too much like our existing mids, inside bulls with less than exceptional disposal skills for a start).

Walsh was our speedster with a tank who's delivery and goal kicking ability was "good enough" to earn him player of the 2023 Finals without playing in the GF and the bluebaggers getting killed in the PF. Sadly injury (and allegedly targeting by oppositions to drop the knee in his back whenever possible, if that's true what a horrible comp AFL really is, could be doing him lifelong injury as well as destroying a career of one of the best in his generation). Cerra is becoming an extra and very handy HB interceptor and elite user of the ball going forward, his kicking seems better than the rest of the mids to me (Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50). Would seem Hewitt has become a much more versatile player in last 10 or so AFL games. But I still think Jagger will add something we really don't have in terms of elite midfield class be it after Cripps etc win CBs or rucking contests around the ground to D50 transition into F50. It irks we gave up Owies for Jagger, but Owies is more replaceable, especially if Williams can string a full seasons together (big ask I know).

I don't think we are flag threats at the moment but at the same time I don't think we are bottom four as the ladder would suggest. people need to get some perspective. interestingly Voss finally acknowledged that maybe we can't run out games from a fitness POV in the last post-match presser! That's the first time in 2 years he hasn't dismissed such suggestions from journalists, he usually sights F50 entries or some other stat comparisons to say we are fit enough in 3rd and 4th quarters. But as Braithy has already said in this thread, the heavily contested style we play that suits our best players also means when we get the ball and it's our time to run, carry, and outperform our direct opponents, man on man, we are more tired than our opponents might be due to the all close marking and chasing down we have been doing to that point. Without really detailed stats and analysis, and just comparing time trials etc it's hard to be certain if that is the case, but to the untrained eye I think @Braithy may have a point.

Confidence is certainly a factor. We started this game with a lot of it and the Dogs scragged and out-competed us back to Earth. they even won the CB clearness in the 3rd and 4th IIRC. we won all of the clearance stats (marginally), marking and tackling stats for the game as a whole, Dogs won the possession stats. We certainly appeared to run out of gas according to ABC radio commentators but I"m yet to watch the vision of second half to decide for myself (not sure I want to TBH).



Perspective. :clap:

The stats show we are doing a lot right.
In the top 3 in many crucial categories.

A turnover in our F50 from bad kicking invariably turned into a goal in last 3 games.
That’s a 12 point turnaround. We miss 6 points they gain 6 points.

2 goal loss Tigers, 3 goal loss Hawks, 1 goal loss to Dogs.

Not happy with our disposal and connection but can improve this area.

We are not that Far off.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 8:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Statistically I see where you're coming from Bondi but watching at least 6 other teams this past few weeks tells me we are miles off.

I want it to be as simple as hitting a target here and there but missing targets and making poor decisions seems ingrained and incredibly hard to change. That's the easy stuff.

The mental composure and pressure execution is miles off when you compare us to Brisbane, Hawthorn, Adelaide etc

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 8:25 am 
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Ken Hunter
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bondiblue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Kennedy was pretty good kicking favourably to contested leads into the F50


I thought he was rated dead last in the comp last year on that metric? Either him or Walsh, I forget :D


Yep.

His photo featured in the report


It's funny that the consensus both here and externally is that MK tore us a new one on Friday because during the game I noticed him shanking a number of kicks into F50 and thought "thank God he's Carlton boy". But I guess I was looking for it because I remembered last year's stats, and overlooked all the times he scored or contributed to a goal :banghead:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 10:12 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Kennedy played a good game, but let's be honest.
He was playing against his old club so he would've been playing out of his skin.
The trouble he's had is backing it up week after week.
I still like the guy but we have too many players like him and he wasn't going to get the midfield time with us with a fully fit team.

Statistically he was kicking at 60% eff.
Would've fit in like a glove for us.


Last edited by Sidefx on Tue Apr 01, 2025 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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