I think you’re missing tue point. Someone has to tell Voss it’s not working, it hasn’t ever worked.

It being, the slow, possession based, contest mauling game with zero forward craft and even less defense he persists with.

I think you are missing py point . Hammil is clueless and shouldn't be listened to . And he wasn't . If it came from someone with nous , yes , I agree .

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All my dangerous friends

Do tell…

Wasn't all the talk about improving our team defence .... and then conceded 4 gials kicked from the goal square to a rebuilding team.

Agree on the "all talk. But have to say, if the coaches and players worked half as hard as the social media team do putting lipstick on this pig, we'd be smashing it.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

Right now, it could come from anyone. Just someone. Who tf cares who says it… as long as someone did.

Typical Voss response too. We can’t sack him soon enough imo

I just hope it wasn’t the skills coach, if so, unlikely any punches thrown would have hit the target

watching hawks, tigers ... exciting teams with lots to look forward to. I don't know our soft cap situation - can we even afford to sack voss?


but I've seen enough. put me firmly in the camp this list will not win a flag. it won't even finish top 4. sack everyone, trade everyone worth high picks and start again like hawks from several years ago, like tigers last year did. give us at least that to be excited about - a future.

the only thing is, Richmond picked a unicorn draft to go all in on. and it will (health willing) pay off for another gen of success.

I'd trade harry, Charlie, weiters, Walsh, send cripps home - everyone over 22 is available and reload this shit show. but i feel like our rusted on arrogance from the board level down, will always impede any real, meaningful change. just as it's done every other rebuild.

our draft pick situation is beyond dire, our cap situation is cooked. so work needs to be done.


and don't be like bondi, with the old "it's just one game", "no need to overreact, etc" ... it isn't. many of us have seen the writing on the wall since we peaked 2023. Doc said we'd finish 10th-14, i actually have us at 13-17th on the year.

and if you persist with this nonsense denial. if not now, when?

do we need to start 0-4, 0-5, do we need to be bottom 4, bottom 2, wooden spoon?? where's the threshold before everyone else is onboard for a clean out?

lol ... if i wasn't crying, i'd be laughing.

The problem is deeper than just the coach. Before a ball was bounced, the scariest thing for me was everyone—from the football director to the coaches to the national recruiting team and a poster on here who knows a great deal about modern football—openly stating that they think the list is in pretty good shape.

So there needs to be some recognition from the club if we do finish somewhere between 9th and 18th that the list isn't good enough. Port looked a bit like us last night. A-graders on every line, but it didn't matter. Wrong list make-up, wrong game style.

I"d like to see a bit of your tenacity rub uff on our players Braithy . Bejeezus your a feisty character .

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All my dangerous friends

All we have to do is open up our forward line

Long kicks to a congested front half doesn't benefit the tall marking forwards or the crumbers

not hard, simple footy

just frustrated, mick. but yeah, probably a little bit too fiery for my own good.

i can see what needs to be done, and watching the twits and twats running our club, slow poke around and meander about while clubs over take us.

remember at the start of our last rebuild, everyone in football, espesh all of us, had us way ahead of the the lions list. then the lions started playing finals while we were still winning spoons. right from that point - alarm bells should have been ringing. but nope not at carlton - where fk the rest still lives on. this isn't a surprise to me where we are.

like doc said. too much ego, wrong list - no balance, no complimentary parts; it's all replication, wrong game plan. we are deep fried.

the problem is much bigger red, there is no trajectory off halfback. we don't propel the ball forward with speed on it. we meander. and that gives teams - even the freaking tigers who won't win another game, time to flood back and snuff us out.

we need to run & spread. but, we have the slowest team in the afl. we're not built for that. so ....

I'm not going to get on the 'get rid of Voss' bandwagon.
But I would like to know how much of a say he has in drafting and trading?
And I would like to know if we have a plan B from just being a great contested team?
Because the game is evolving and we seem pretty stagnate.

Don't lose your fire mate . Don't ever be sorry for that ..................... funny , son number one was just around to my place and he is in your camp . And he's fiery like your good self . Be a dull old world if we were all the same .

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All my dangerous friends

The rebuild started in 2015

Up there for the worst AFL rebuild ever

Numerous opportunities to set up for sustained success

The club just doesn’t have a winning mentality

Continually overrates the list and doesn’t make ruthless decisions

I was adamant that we should have undertaken a mini rebuild after season 2021. Instead the club continually thinks it is close and topped up with experienced players that have cost us a fortune with limited results

In my view 2023 was an aberration as we had no right to win that final against Melbourne. They literally threw that game away.

This list has peaked and won’t win a premiership

Agree

Been thinking the same for a very long time. We kick the ball to get it outside defensive 50 whereas the best sides run it out.

Our deplorable drafting of midfielders who have minimal running power has hurt us big time. We paid a big price at the draft table for the likes of SPS, Stocker and Dow ... none of which had the running power required for midfielders in the modern game. Our recruiters fail time and time to evaluate the work rate, speed, speed with the ball required at this level.

If we're going to make decisions on a week to week basis, we'll deservedly become a basket case of a club.
I understand people were emotional and upset after the game Thursday. I was and I still am. I won't watch any other football shows or listen to it on the radio.
But I don't understand demands to sack the coach after 1 loss. If I recall correctly, Brisbane lost 5 of their first 7 games last year and there were plenty of calls for Fagan to be sacked. On social media and by football "experts" in the media.
Fast forward 5 months and they win the flag and he's a premiership coach.

I don't buy the criticism of our game plan being 20 years old. You build a game style to suit the personnel on your list. We can't play the back half game like the Tigers or Hawks because we don't have the leg speed in our group. Neither out of the back half or forward of the ball. The conditions suited the Tigers on Thursday night and our players failed to perform when the heat was applied.
And the reality is, of the 8 highest rated teams scoring from the back half last year, only 3 played finals football.

Finals football is still won by the most aggressive, competitive teams. Our side has shown that they are a team that can be brutal around the contest and when we had the personnel available, that got them to second on the ladder late last season. We fell away but the statistics show we were decimated by injury. It's not an excuse, it's a fact.
The Lions last year were number 1 in the AFL for clearances. We were 4th. They were number 2 for contested marks, we were 4th. They were number 1 for stoppage clearances, we were 5th.
The game is still about contest.

Thursday night showed our players were underprepared for the conditions and probably expected the Tigers to roll over. When they ramped up the pressure, too many of our players didn't handle it. Is some of that attributable to the coach? Definitely but every AFL coach will make mistakes most weeks. None are infallible.
If we miss the finals as some suggest, I'm happy to see changes in the coaching team. But I still don't buy the doomsday scenario. I still think we're good enough and believe we'll finish top 4 if we have a decent run with injury.
Disappointing games will occur. Brisbane lost to the Giants by 9 goals last year. Sydney won 13 of their first 14 games. Their only loss was to Richmond. Shit happens.

The advantage is Voss has seen who will let him down when the going gets tough. His challenge is to change it or eradicate it. Let's see where we are at at the half way mark.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

While I agree we're not the quickest side going around, we make absolutely no effort whatsoever to separate from our opponents during the mid-fwd transition
Apart from presenting an option and allowing players to not always bomb it long, it drags opp defenders away from our crowded inside 30 space

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!