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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2025 11:50 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Yeah he honestly has to go. I wanted to believe he was the guy so badly that I constantly convinced myself it will all click eventually. But 4 years later and still the same clueless game plan.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 4:15 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
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This game plan witch is still the same crap as 4 years ago just kick it long
to pack of ten players
That is the same way he coached at Brisbane
Sooner he is gone the better off the club will be and he can
take Austin with him


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 6:08 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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It’s obvious that we have no real cohesive style of play. Hence the long bombs that serve no purpose.

Rely too much on individual talent

Has been the story of our lives for a very long time

Combination of poor coaching and a limited list

Another rebuild likely to commence soon with a new coach

Not a great time for this with the Tasmanian team on the horizon and recently handing over first round picks

Club is a disaster


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:14 am 
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Ken Hunter
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What's the earliest in a season a coach has been sakced? Cos I reckon we might beat it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:17 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Welcome to Carlton Kade Simpson ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:49 am 
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Bruce Doull
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This team has been flaky and reliant on individual brilliance for the last 4-5 coaches.

As long as I can remember, we've frequently shit the bed in games where we've gone in as unpackaged favourites.

There's something wrong with the culture at this club. No coach has been able to fix it in over 20 years.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:47 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Wojee wrote:
This team has been flaky and reliant on individual brilliance for the last 4-5 coaches.

As long as I can remember, we've frequently shit the bed in games where we've gone in as unpackaged favourites.

There's something wrong with the culture at this club. No coach has been able to fix it in over 20 years.


Nah that’s a piss poor excuse. The culture has been reset a number of times and looks nothing like it did in the past. What happened 20 years ago has nothing to do with the culture now. That kind of thinking lets people off the hook. It’s no one’s fault, it’s just the culture.

It is the people within the 4 walls of the club that have always been the problem. Coaches, recruiters, fitness staff, players. I don’t know exactly how much of the blame to attribute where, but people need to be accountable. Not just blame the culture.

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:01 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24662
Location: Bondi Beach
jake_h03 wrote:

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. and a Fwd Ruck to allow us to keep our 2 guns fas targets. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:09 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
Posts: 154
jake_h03 wrote:
Wojee wrote:
This team has been flaky and reliant on individual brilliance for the last 4-5 coaches.

As long as I can remember, we've frequently shit the bed in games where we've gone in as unpackaged favourites.

There's something wrong with the culture at this club. No coach has been able to fix it in over 20 years.


Nah that’s a piss poor excuse. The culture has been reset a number of times and looks nothing like it did in the past. What happened 20 years ago has nothing to do with the culture now. That kind of thinking lets people off the hook. It’s no one’s fault, it’s just the culture.

It is the people within the 4 walls of the club that have always been the problem. Coaches, recruiters, fitness staff, players. I don’t know exactly how much of the blame to attribute where, but people need to be accountable. Not just blame the culture.

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in



You are spot on with your assessment
The only way out of this to get back in the draft is to trade someone who has value maybe McKay, Walsh
Cripps or Curnow but saying that our recruitment department would only stuff it up and can someone explain why we gave up 2first round picks for jagga who hadn’t even played a game


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:12 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1919
jake_h03 wrote:
Wojee wrote:
This team has been flaky and reliant on individual brilliance for the last 4-5 coaches.

As long as I can remember, we've frequently shit the bed in games where we've gone in as unpackaged favourites.

There's something wrong with the culture at this club. No coach has been able to fix it in over 20 years.


Nah that’s a piss poor excuse. The culture has been reset a number of times and looks nothing like it did in the past. What happened 20 years ago has nothing to do with the culture now. That kind of thinking lets people off the hook. It’s no one’s fault, it’s just the culture.

It is the people within the 4 walls of the club that have always been the problem. Coaches, recruiters, fitness staff, players. I don’t know exactly how much of the blame to attribute where, but people need to be accountable. Not just blame the culture.

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:15 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2809
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. and a Fwd Ruck to allow us to keep our 2 guns fas targets. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in


Are you coming around to the idea that it’s the coach Bondi? You’ve been pretty staunch in your defence.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:57 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Location: Melbourne
Also, just to let elaborate on my point about culture - culture is created by people. IF there is something wrong with the existing culture, it is on the leaders of the club to build a culture that will bring success. If they can’t, they are not up to it. You can’t blame generations that have come before you for your own shortcomings. Take the bull by the horns and build the culture. We have Brian Cook at the head of the table FFS. No more excuses


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:10 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24662
Location: Bondi Beach
DesEnglish wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. and a Fwd Ruck to allow us to keep our 2 guns fas targets. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in


Are you coming around to the idea that it’s the coach Bondi? You’ve been pretty staunch in your defence.


I don't know what goes on in the coaches box.

I am sure I have heard the term line coaches, tactician, strategist, opposition intel, motivation...I don't think its all the one person.

Forward entry is ongoing BIG issue for the team. Sort that out and we have a winning combo.

We won everything except on the scoreboard and the ruck ... we broke even, but Nankervis was very effective.

Harry and Charlie are bonafide good targets. Its all the stuff around them and the stuff coming in which is the problem.

If that's Vossy's fault, then I'm all for questioning him, but I don't think it is. The small forwards have always been overrated since Betts days.

Motlop, Evans, Fogarty ... don't inspire me. IMO, we carry them. they are not dangerous enough, and if they don't apply pressure and tackle, they are of no use to us.

Willims is the only small forward I want in, and Fantasia has won me over this preseason. I don't like carrying the former 3 players regardless of perceived potential. So who else have we got to replace them? No names. That's who. Bring on the no names. We need goals, speed and tackles from our small forwards, and a stronger presence from our KPFs. Harry was pushed off line too easily by a 20yo last night. WTF was that? Vossy's fault? Was it Vossy who slipped over or missed the tackle? or kicked it OOF? or missed the target by hand and foot?

Complacency was set before the game started, even at half time for most Carlton players and fans. Is that Vossy's fault. he may have read them the riot act, but in the end, maybe these guys are as soft as Sydney Blue maintains.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 12:42 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2809
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:

Our list has clear deficiencies that have never been addressed. We lack a key defender to help weitering. We lack a class small forward yet we recruit 10 ordinary ones and hope one will work out. and a Fwd Ruck to allow us to keep our 2 guns fas targets. The list across the board lacks powerful runners. We’ve got guys who can cover distance, but they’re dainty little long distance runners, not guys who can break lines. Go watch Callaghan at GWS to see what breaking lines with run can do.

But mostly, we lack any semblance of a strategy moving the ball. The reason there are so many blind dump kicks both out of defence or into the forward line is because the players have NFI what they are supposed to be doing. We do not have a system of player movement to create a free man at all times. We do not have a strategy to create space for players to run into. We do not have a plan to catch the opposition defence off guard by moving the ball quickly and unpredictably. The players on the ground should be like 18 cells of a single organism. Every movement should have a purpose and relate to the movement of the other 17 cells.

What we have is u12 style, get the ball, pass it around one or twice and then bomb it as long as you can and hope for the best. This happens because we do not have a game plan that provides players with the right option. Either that or the instruction actually is just to kick it long to an outnumbered forward. Not sure which is worse. Either way it is abundantly clear that Voss and/or whichever assistants are responsible for the game plan and overall strategy for ball and player movement are nowhere near up to it. If their strategy, whatever it is, does actually work, they are unable to get the players to execute it. 4 years is more than enough, especially with a mature list littered with all Australians.

I saw a stat that in our last 10 games we are 2-8, with our only 2 wins coming against Norf and West Coast. We genuinely could be on the cusp of bottom 4 with our first pick already traded out. Let that sink in


Are you coming around to the idea that it’s the coach Bondi? You’ve been pretty staunch in your defence.


I don't know what goes on in the coaches box.

I am sure I have heard the term line coaches, tactician, strategist, opposition intel, motivation...I don't think its all the one person.

Forward entry is ongoing BIG issue for the team. Sort that out and we have a winning combo.

We won everything except on the scoreboard and the ruck ... we broke even, but Nankervis was very effective.

Harry and Charlie are bonafide good targets. Its all the stuff around them and the stuff coming in which is the problem.

If that's Vossy's fault, then I'm all for questioning him, but I don't think it is. The small forwards have always been overrated since Betts days.

Motlop, Evans, Fogarty ... don't inspire me. IMO, we carry them. they are not dangerous enough, and if they don't apply pressure and tackle, they are of no use to us.

Willims is the only small forward I want in, and Fantasia has won me over this preseason. I don't like carrying the former 3 players regardless of perceived potential. So who else have we got to replace them? No names. That's who. Bring on the no names. We need goals, speed and tackles from our small forwards, and a stronger presence from our KPFs. Harry was pushed off line too easily by a 20yo last night. WTF was that? Vossy's fault? Was it Vossy who slipped over or missed the tackle? or kicked it OOF? or missed the target by hand and foot?

Complacency was set before the game started, even at half time for most Carlton players and fans. Is that Vossy's fault. he may have read them the riot act, but in the end, maybe these guys are as soft as Sydney Blue maintains.


Voss is accountable for how the team plays, if he’s not then what’s the job of a head coach? The game-plan is his, others might have input but again, head coach, he’s got to be accountable. It’s his team of assistants, if he’s doesn’t like what he’s getting from them then he’s had opportunities to make change.4 preseasons in, we still play the same way. There is no run, limited skill.

My observations of selection is that Carlton prefer to go with players whose capabilities they know, irrespective of the ceiling of their capabilities. Therefore we pick players that are half fit, out of position, form or just plain not up to it.

Maybe I should be angry at Cook…..


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 1:19 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Maybe, but Cook is the one guy in the organisation who has a history of success


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 1:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Speed and strength

Maybe he should have also included intestinal fortitude.

Oh well live and learn


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 2:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
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jake_h03 wrote:
Maybe, but Cook is the one guy in the organisation who has a history of success


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I said it ages ago he's there to top up his super. Why would he rock the boat at the end of his career?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 2:55 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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jake_h03 wrote:
Maybe, but Cook is the one guy in the organisation who has a history of success


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bit rough, Voss was a triple premiership captain


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 3:05 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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That presser sounded like we lost to a top 4 team instead of the worst team in the comp, that since lost a bunch of good players and debuted 3 kids...

No apology to the fans... no line in the sand... no @#$%&! idea

Too interested in being the nice guy... what happened to the mongrel he had as a player?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 3:08 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
No fever this side of the white line.

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