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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:29 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
tap in 79 wrote:
[Durdin to Richmond, pay half his wage and keep Owies.
Get Weitering on slightly lesser deal to squeeze him in. They do want success don’t they? Or is $ more important?


Corey Durdin is 22 years old. At the same age, Matt Owies hadn't played a game of AFL football.
Get Durdin fit and he'll be good value. You don't give away young players without seeing how they perform without injury. Especially offering to pay half their wage! Durdin is more of a crumbing forward than Owies and IMHO, will be a very good AFL player once he gets his shoulder right.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:42 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9628
Location: Australia
Blue Vain wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
[Durdin to Richmond, pay half his wage and keep Owies.
Get Weitering on slightly lesser deal to squeeze him in. They do want success don’t they? Or is $ more important?


Corey Durdin is 22 years old. At the same age, Matt Owies hadn't played a game of AFL football.
Get Durdin fit and he'll be good value. You don't give away young players without seeing how they perform without injury. Especially offering to pay half their wage! Durdin is more of a crumbing forward than Owies and IMHO, will be a very good AFL player once he gets his shoulder right.


Agree, I’d be getting rid of Motlop and Williams before either C Durdin or Owies.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 9:52 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6931
tap in 79 wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Surely we could get a deal done with Gold Coast for Owies?


Better still.
How about keeping Owies.
His goal kickin, his celebrations and emotional investment far exceeds what Durdin and Fantasia offer.

How about trading Fantasia & Durdin to someone and paying half of their contracts (as they have 1 yr deals) to get the trade done.

Why did Fantasia get a 2 year deal at Carlton anyway? The logic of getting an injured, past his prime, 11? goal in a season goal kicker isn’t great.
He kicked 4 in one match and half of them from distant memory were supplied by Owies anyway.

Fantasia was looking at going to GWS on one year so we offered the extra year to get him


GWS must have laughed at Carlton over that one.
They have amongst the best small forward combo in the comp, so why would they seek Fantasia?

So surely a club eg Richmond- could want a small forward with the exodus of players leaving there now .. Durdin to Richmond, pay half his wage and keep Owies.
Get Weitering on slightly lesser deal to squeeze him in. They do want success don’t they? Or is $ more important?


it is about cap management more than anything else. durdin, like BV said, is younger and he's cheaper. owies next contract is the one he'll look to cash in on. it'll be his biggest career payday.

fantasia is on the vet minimum, so it barely counts against much of anything off the cap. fantasia offers leadership & team first ethos, and this year, he led the team in F50 efficiency - so he paid for his own contract on that stat alone.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:41 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
Should we be looking to try and get James Peatling on the cheap, he could be good depth for our midfield?
He's out of contract and has been talking to Vic clubs (not us though).
Giants have a 3 year deal on the table.
I don't know much about him but he could be an upgrade to some on our list.

Draft Profile
https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/james-peatling/
Quote:
STRENGTHS: Speed, agility, footy IQ, marking, versatility
IMPROVEMENTS: Strength, endurance

I'm sure he has worked on his improvements over the last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:48 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
Blue Vain wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
[Durdin to Richmond, pay half his wage and keep Owies.
Get Weitering on slightly lesser deal to squeeze him in. They do want success don’t they? Or is $ more important?


Corey Durdin is 22 years old. At the same age, Matt Owies hadn't played a game of AFL football.
Get Durdin fit and he'll be good value. You don't give away young players without seeing how they perform without injury. Especially offering to pay half their wage! Durdin is more of a crumbing forward than Owies and IMHO, will be a very good AFL player once he gets his shoulder right.

Durdin has a lot of upside if he gets his shoulders right


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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James Peatling is precisely the type of midfielder we need, hopefully Austin is targeting him and if not possible a similar type of player, our midfield desperately needs:- speed, agility and footy IQ.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 1:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7187
bmaurizio wrote:
James Peatling is precisely the type of midfielder we need, hopefully Austin is targeting him and if not possible a similar type of player, our midfield desperately needs:- speed, agility and footy IQ.


That's good , except he doesn't find the football .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 1:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Peatling has looked pretty impressive, if memory serves he's been subbed on and off a fair bit so that endurance may still be an issue. He's still pretty skinny but I'd not be too worried about that. Worth considering if cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 1:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Mickstar wrote:
bmaurizio wrote:
James Peatling is precisely the type of midfielder we need, hopefully Austin is targeting him and if not possible a similar type of player, our midfield desperately needs:- speed, agility and footy IQ.


That's good , except he doesn't find the football .


He's improved that part of his game this year, averaging 19 disposals in games where he's spent at least 70% time on ground. Last year he averaged 12 by the same criteria. He's a bit older than I thought- turned 24 last month - but seems to be on a decent trajectory. As an outside mid/forward I think his involvement is all right.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 2:11 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2129
Braithy wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Surely we could get a deal done with Gold Coast for Owies?


Better still.
How about keeping Owies.
His goal kickin, his celebrations and emotional investment far exceeds what Durdin and Fantasia offer.

How about trading Fantasia & Durdin to someone and paying half of their contracts (as they have 1 yr deals) to get the trade done.

Why did Fantasia get a 2 year deal at Carlton anyway? The logic of getting an injured, past his prime, 11? goal in a season goal kicker isn’t great.
He kicked 4 in one match and half of them from distant memory were supplied by Owies anyway.

Fantasia was looking at going to GWS on one year so we offered the extra year to get him


GWS must have laughed at Carlton over that one.
They have amongst the best small forward combo in the comp, so why would they seek Fantasia?

So surely a club eg Richmond- could want a small forward with the exodus of players leaving there now .. Durdin to Richmond, pay half his wage and keep Owies.
Get Weitering on slightly lesser deal to squeeze him in. They do want success don’t they? Or is $ more important?


it is about cap management more than anything else. durdin, like BV said, is younger and he's cheaper. owies next contract is the one he'll look to cash in on. it'll be his biggest career payday.

fantasia is on the vet minimum, so it barely counts against much of anything off the cap. fantasia offers leadership & team first ethos, and this year, he led the team in F50 efficiency - so he paid for his own contract on that stat alone.


Re Fantasia
It’s tough /difficult to be a leader when you average about 30 AFL fantasy points per match.. or put another way.. rarely get above 7 or 8 possessions.

Owies
103 score involvements
79 contested possessions
25 tackles inside 50
79 contested possessions
26 marks inside 50



Fantasia
50 score involvements
14 tackles inside 50
52 contested possessions
8 marks inside 50


Slapping other blokes on the back after a score isn’t leadership imo.
This is a brutal business and any chink on the armour will be exploited by the opposition.
We already have half decent defensive forwards.
Owies is a bit like the Swans’ Papley in terms of building enthusiasm- hence more leadership.

Fantasia and Durdin would have to improve at least 3 fold to be of true benefit to Carlton.

We can agree to disagree, but what we both want is a stronger Carlton.
Durdin has been in the system for years and so too Fantasia.. let’s hope they improve. A lot.


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pr- ... o-fantasia


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 2:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6931
he (fantasia) just does a bunch of team things that don't show up on stat sheets and in fantasy footy. running into space as a decoy, surging forward. he takes a defender with him and it opens space up for charlie or owies

but yeah, he's not winning us a flag. he's cheap and plays his role and is low maintenance.


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 Post subject: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 2:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
Crusader wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Did you know Owies kicked 33 goals this year. Only two small fwds kicked more than 40 (Toby Green and Tyson Stengle). Only 7 small fwds kicked more goals than him. Why are we not offering him a decent contract. Yes I know he has weaknesses but he hits the scoreboard.



i think it was dermott that said a scarecrow could kick 40 goals a season in our forwardline with H and charles.


i honestly think we're going to chase a proper small forward. that's the only thing that makes sense not to sign owies. cfc must think theres better out there and they're gettable.


Seems like the only logical explanation. Owies bleeds blue and according to reports in media he's been asked to cool his jets on a new contract all season. Reportedly due to list management salary cap issues/congestion, Campo twins etc.

If I was a player in Owies' shoes, I would read that as take a look around given CFC signed Weiters, H, Charlie etc on long-term (record breaking at the time) big money contracts for 6-8 seasons.

For such a loyal servant who's show more match fitness and form consistency than most of our list, let alone our designated forwards, I think this is pretty rough treatment. What can I say, AFL is a capitalist's nursery these days, and all that club loyalty rhetoric is as the late great Ron Barrasie said without a hint of irony at the time (paraphrasing) "loyalty needs to become a transferable commodity".

What contract would you put to him?

I couldn’t go more than 2 x $300k, and I’m buying what Derm is selling, fwiw.

Fogarty - daylight - Fantasia - raffle the rest. I’d rather hold five forwards & play a tagger or 2nd ruck or even a loose behind the ball, than split hairs over a second small forward.

If Owies was capable of playing 90%, or getting 20 touches, or a mismatch at the stoppages… different story altogether.

Fair enough, the others don’t have those numbers next to their names either. Their days may be numbered. But, if the roles were reversed, I’d fancy their chances of racking up two scores per game & an assist every other.


how many smaller forwards average 20 touches? almost none of them, thanks for your perspective though, i’m just a blues tragic. :-)

Tom Paply :: disposal average
season → 15.1 (goals 1.8 )
career → 14.1

Toby Green
season → 15.3 (goals 1.8 )
career → 20.2

Charlie Cameron :: disposal average
season → 10.5 (Goals 1.7 )
career → 11.3

Cam Rayner
season → 15.3 (G 1.2 )

Callum Ah Chee
season → 13.4 (goals 0.9 )

Brad Close
season → 12.7 (goals 1.0 )

Matt Owies
season → 8.7 (goals 1.4 )

David Cunningham (goals 0.8 )
season → 7.8

Elijah Hollands
season → 17.8 (goals 0.8 )

Zac Williams
season → 12.8 (goals 0.8 )

Cory Durdin
season → 12.8 (goals 0.8 )

(what’s with all the 0.8 goals a game blue boys?)

who else?


Last edited by diesel95 on Tue Oct 08, 2024 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 3:39 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 374
keep mots and Durdin , trade owies who turns 28 and if we can land a pick this period maybe we can land a gem (fingers cross)


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35684
Location: Half back flank
I hear Peatling averages 30 fantasia points

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7470
Location: Bendigo
diesel95 wrote:
Crusader wrote:
diesel95 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Did you know Owies kicked 33 goals this year. Only two small fwds kicked more than 40 (Toby Green and Tyson Stengle). Only 7 small fwds kicked more goals than him. Why are we not offering him a decent contract. Yes I know he has weaknesses but he hits the scoreboard.



i think it was dermott that said a scarecrow could kick 40 goals a season in our forwardline with H and charles.


i honestly think we're going to chase a proper small forward. that's the only thing that makes sense not to sign owies. cfc must think theres better out there and they're gettable.


Seems like the only logical explanation. Owies bleeds blue and according to reports in media he's been asked to cool his jets on a new contract all season. Reportedly due to list management salary cap issues/congestion, Campo twins etc.

If I was a player in Owies' shoes, I would read that as take a look around given CFC signed Weiters, H, Charlie etc on long-term (record breaking at the time) big money contracts for 6-8 seasons.

For such a loyal servant who's show more match fitness and form consistency than most of our list, let alone our designated forwards, I think this is pretty rough treatment. What can I say, AFL is a capitalist's nursery these days, and all that club loyalty rhetoric is as the late great Ron Barrasie said without a hint of irony at the time (paraphrasing) "loyalty needs to become a transferable commodity".

What contract would you put to him?

I couldn’t go more than 2 x $300k, and I’m buying what Derm is selling, fwiw.

Fogarty - daylight - Fantasia - raffle the rest. I’d rather hold five forwards & play a tagger or 2nd ruck or even a loose behind the ball, than split hairs over a second small forward.

If Owies was capable of playing 90%, or getting 20 touches, or a mismatch at the stoppages… different story altogether.

Fair enough, the others don’t have those numbers next to their names either. Their days may be numbered. But, if the roles were reversed, I’d fancy their chances of racking up two scores per game & an assist every other.


how many smaller forwards average 20 touches? almost none of them, thanks for your perspective though, i’m just a blues tragic. :-)

Tom Paply :: disposal average
season → 15.1 (goals 1.8)
career → 14.1

Toby Green
season → 15.3 (goals 1.8)
career → 20.2

Charlie Cameron :: disposal average
season → 10.5 (Goals 1.7)
career → 11.3

Cam Rayner
season → 15.3 (G 1.2)

Callum Ah Chee
season → 13.4 (goals 0.9)

Brad Close
season → 12.7 (goals 1.0)

Matt Owies
season → 8.7 (goals 1.4)

David Cunningham (goals 0.8)
season → 7.8

Elijah Hollands
season → 17.8 (goals 0.8)

Zac Williams
season → 12.8 (goals 0.8)

Cory Durdin
season → 12.8 (goals 0.8)

(what’s with all the 0.8 goals a game boys?)

who else?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sorry Diesel, I didn’t mean average 20. That’s a rare beast from a forward position.

I meant just once or twice a year - but a threat to every week. That’s the difference.

I just think he’s easy to defend from a distance.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:41 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 922
Blue Vain wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Young’s problem is that he’s had to be dragged, kicking & screaming into a CHB role. The penny hasn’t quite dropped. He sees himself as a third man up interceptor (he said as much when he left the Dogs) and, in fairness, it’s a great mismatch with his size & athleticism… not so great for his teammates that are left on an island with the bigger man.


He may see himself as a 3rd man up interceptor but he doesn't have the skill set. It's obvious what the opposition think of his skills. When we're transitioning the ball out of D50, he's the one defender they happily zone off. His own team mates will assess every possible option before kicking the ball to him. Yes his size and athleticism are great but he needs to use those to his advantage as a lock down defender. The fact that he hasn't done it is what stops him being a best 22 player IMHO.

You cant have an interceptor who makes the decisions (or lack of) that Lewis Young does. Imagine him getting it 20 times per game. Kicking it 42m to a 50/50 contest may count as an effective disposal but it wont get you a regular gig in the AFL if you're not an elite defender. Hence why the club has apparently told him to look elsewhere.
It's a shame as he has the makings of an excellent lock down player. As you said, he has size and athleticism but he needs more strength. If he could put on 7-8kg and become a strong defensive key, I'd suggest he could be of great value but perhaps he wont/cant adapt.
This!

And when he doesn't play timid he can be quite effective.
When he's assertive in the air he is good.
He is slow and indecisive when he gets the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14341
Location: Sydney
I've been optimistic on Young but it's true, whenever we've put our long term faith in him he's let us down. Maybe he's one of those blokes who can only perform in the last chance saloon. If only footballers could be employed on a casual basis... Gov in a contract year + Young on pay-as-you-play = just hand us the @#$%&! cup. Under the circumstances, telling him to explore his options may be a smart move: even if he ends up staying, it may light a fire under his arse.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7470
Location: Bendigo
Crusader wrote:
Surely we could get a deal done with Gold Coast for Owies?

We give: Owies, 31, 2025 R1
GC give: 12, 26

Then…

We give: Jack Carroll, McGovern, 11 & 12
WCE give: 4, 2025 R3, Coby Burgiel

Then…

We give: Harry Lemmey
Syd give: 2025 R2, 2026 R2


Out: Cuningham, Marchbank, Martin, Owies, McGovern, Carroll, Lemmey, 11, 31, 2025 R1
In: Haynes, Burgiel, Ben, Lucas, Duffy (Cat B), 1x SSP, 4, 26, Syd 2025 R2, WCE 2025 R3, Syd 2026 R2

Primary: 36
Cat A: 6
Cat B: 2

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7470
Location: Bendigo
Got a bit loose after a few froffies :lol: :beer:


Don’t drink & trade!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:51 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2129
We’re going to have to get every pick right to compete with Brisbane.
They’re my tip for the next two flags.
Let’s hope we finally strike a rich yield in the diabolically unfair father-son rule with Camporeale.


The AFL’s socialist designed competition results in two key distortions

1- father-son rule.
Will Ashcroft - just hand over a few picks in the 30s -34, 36 and 38 and bingo ! You get the best young player in the comp.
Levi Ashcroft has played in 3 flags with Sandringham Dragons.. walks straight into Lions team.
Thank you kindly says the Lions.. we’ll hand over pick 48, 49 and 50 for him ( or whatever the match bid states)

2- academy

3- on top of this, Lions recruit well. Combined.. it’s a 3 headed monster.

Our only hope is if Brisbane have injuries & if Daniher retires. And Curnow & McKay are in devastating form in the finals.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1225051/bri ... aight-flag


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