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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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The way i am seeing it so far, the Club is trying desperately to get rid of players to free up some Salary cap money for Houston.


Getting rid of Owies is one big mistake. Matt Kennedy has never been given a real chance to play in Midfield. When he did, he was getting over 30+ Touches. The Club needs to look beyond Crippa for the inside mid role.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Kennedy has had 30+ touches in 5 of his 118 career games, not sure I'd be hanging my hat on that.

He's a good player, but we have enough big slow mids, and we have JSOS and Moir in the forward line.

The other areas where we are overstocked are mediocre small forwards and C-grade wingers. Everything I hear about the Camporeale brothers fills me with concern that we're overloading on the wrong player out of a sense of obligation. What's the point of drafting the Campo boys on top of Binns? Will the latter be forced out just as he's showing signs?

I'd be chuffed if we get SDK as long as he and Tom don't let the horseplay distract them from coaches' instructions.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Dodo27 wrote:
The way i am seeing it so far, the Club is trying desperately to get rid of players to free up some Salary cap money for Houston.


Getting rid of Owies is one big mistake. Matt Kennedy has never been given a real chance to play in Midfield. When he did, he was getting over 30+ Touches. The Club needs to look beyond Crippa for the inside mid role.



Houston will be more about having picks to offer. Sure the money will be required but ……..no decent picks no Houston. I suspect 2025 first round will have to be part of any deal.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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If Voss is pushing it I assume Houston gets done, irrespective of the price.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Yup agree, regarding the Dan Houston trade it will involve our 2025 first round pick as baseline with a sweetener , whatever pick we can snare for Kennedy or Owies, reckon either of these players will yield a mid to end 2nd rounder.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:36 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2780
Location: dudley!!!
GreatEx wrote:
Kennedy has had 30+ touches in 5 of his 118 career games, not sure I'd be hanging my hat on that.

He's a good player, but we have enough big slow mids, and we have JSOS and Moir in the forward line.

The other areas where we are overstocked are mediocre small forwards and C-grade wingers. Everything I hear about the Camporeale brothers fills me with concern that we're overloading on the wrong player out of a sense of obligation. What's the point of drafting the Campo boys on top of Binns? Will the latter be forced out just as he's showing signs?

I'd be chuffed if we get SDK as long as he and Tom don't let the horseplay distract them from coaches' instructions.


what do you mean big G? honest question from someone well away from oz. i thought one of the boys was supposed to be a gun?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:15 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
GreatEx wrote:
Kennedy has had 30+ touches in 5 of his 118 career games, not sure I'd be hanging my hat on that.

He's a good player, but we have enough big slow mids, and we have JSOS and Moir in the forward line.

The other areas where we are overstocked are mediocre small forwards and C-grade wingers. Everything I hear about the Camporeale brothers fills me with concern that we're overloading on the wrong player out of a sense of obligation. What's the point of drafting the Campo boys on top of Binns? Will the latter be forced out just as he's showing signs?

I'd be chuffed if we get SDK as long as he and Tom don't let the horseplay distract them from coaches' instructions.


Ben is definitely not surplus to Binns. He has transitioned to the midfield from the wing the last 18 months. Now has a solid inside game to compliment his natural running ability. Lucas at this stage is more outside and did play wing in the Champs but has also played half-back.

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 Post subject: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 12:08 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Geez, if it's a choice between De Koning & Houston I'm team SDK all the way

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 12:53 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Narre Warren VIC
Why would you give up a 1st Draft Pick for 2025? This is insane!

The Club is moving closer to a new rebuild, the Premiership Window is coming to an end in the next 1-2 years if we don't Win one. Some of our guns are reaching the end of their Careers, especially our Captain, so what's going to happen if we get Houston, give up 1st round picks and more, then fail to Win a Premiership?

We will have no solid picks to build a team around. Instead, the club will resort to getting recycled players to fill the Gaps and seek success that is doomed and will never happen.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 8:35 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6321
bender wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Kennedy has had 30+ touches in 5 of his 118 career games, not sure I'd be hanging my hat on that.

He's a good player, but we have enough big slow mids, and we have JSOS and Moir in the forward line.

The other areas where we are overstocked are mediocre small forwards and C-grade wingers. Everything I hear about the Camporeale brothers fills me with concern that we're overloading on the wrong player out of a sense of obligation. What's the point of drafting the Campo boys on top of Binns? Will the latter be forced out just as he's showing signs?

I'd be chuffed if we get SDK as long as he and Tom don't let the horseplay distract them from coaches' instructions.


what do you mean big G? honest question from someone well away from oz. i thought one of the boys was supposed to be a gun?

Agree
R there better kids


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 8:36 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6321
Dodo27 wrote:
Why would you give up a 1st Draft Pick for 2025? This is insane!

The Club is moving closer to a new rebuild, the Premiership Window is coming to an end in the next 1-2 years if we don't Win one. Some of our guns are reaching the end of their Careers, especially our Captain, so what's going to happen if we get Houston, give up 1st round picks and more, then fail to Win a Premiership?

We will have no solid picks to build a team around. Instead, the club will resort to getting recycled players to fill the Gaps and seek success that is doomed and will never happen.

Ditto


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 8:56 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4746
And if we give up 2025 1st, and our NGA players end up being really good, then what?

I dont like giving up future 1sts as you dont know what will happen, and what players are available. ie what is Harley Reid says i want to come to Carlton.

Dont know what our obsession is with half back flankers. Everyone we recruit is now either played as a small forward or back.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:12 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6926
harley reid is going to go to Essendon* if he leaves the west. and the kind of deal it would have to be, you'd be gutting your club big time.


i think we're on the right path. there's enough pieces on this roster to contend. just need to sift through the deadwood and upgrade it with quality.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:41 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4746
why would reid go to essenscum, am i missing something?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:43 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Braithy wrote:
harley reid is going to go to Essendon** if he leaves the west. and the kind of deal it would have to be, you'd be gutting your club big time.


i think we're on the right path. there's enough pieces on this roster to contend. just need to sift through the deadwood and upgrade it with quality.


There are people that will tell you Harley aint that bright . If his intention is to eventually land at the hanger then it sorta confirms what people say .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:03 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Drewgirl wrote:
why would reid go to essenscum, am i missing something?



grew up a bombers supporter, trained with them under a pathways program and apparently told some around the club he'll be back there one day. the word was he'd take a big pay cut to play with them. which imo, is what you'd need to land him and still have a team to put together around him.

but west coast is going to offer him 20 mil and 12 years if you believe the media - so that kinda money might could change things


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:22 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
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Ewe lets hope not. Can you imagine the love fest if he goes to Essenscum.? If the coverage is big now, just imagine then.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:45 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
Dodo27 wrote:
Why would you give up a 1st Draft Pick for 2025? This is insane!

The Club is moving closer to a new rebuild, the Premiership Window is coming to an end in the next 1-2 years if we don't Win one. Some of our guns are reaching the end of their Careers, especially our Captain, so what's going to happen if we get Houston, give up 1st round picks and more, then fail to Win a Premiership?

We will have no solid picks to build a team around. Instead, the club will resort to getting recycled players to fill the Gaps and seek success that is doomed and will never happen.

If we are in a premiership window, then wouldn't you be trying to add mature talent to your list to make the final push?

You can't rebuild a team while pushing for a premiership at the same time.
Giving up one future first is hardly putting us on track to doom.
Houston should deliver for us for the next 3-5 years at least, enough time for Wilson, Campo boys, pick 11 & 31 this draft to mature.
Our Captain is only 30 next year, he's got a few more years IMO.
The only other key players getting to the pointy end in the next couple are Newman, Saad & Doc.
We are already drafting and putting players in place to take over from them and Houston is one of those for a few extra years.
And maybe Lord is going to be Cripps replacement.
This is what clubs like Geelong have been doing for the better part of a decade.
So I'm confused as to why it's so dramatic for us to be doing the same.
Just remember, Cook would have laid all the ground work for us to be competitive and continually build on our list in the same manner Geelong has.
We just need to remove some injured players and add some speed and skill and we will be ok.
Houston has both that and is a guaranteed, unlike a draft pick 2 drafts away and 5 years before we know (well outside our window).

And if we want to keep attracting good mature talent like Geelong then we need to be playing finals every year.
Topping up a list now using picks should help us top up our list without using them in the future.
Geelong have the oldest list again this year and could well be in another GF.
That is why so many free agents want to play for them, they know they will play finals and probably in a GF with a good chance of a premiership before they retire.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 11:01 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6926
Sidefx wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Why would you give up a 1st Draft Pick for 2025? This is insane!

The Club is moving closer to a new rebuild, the Premiership Window is coming to an end in the next 1-2 years if we don't Win one. Some of our guns are reaching the end of their Careers, especially our Captain, so what's going to happen if we get Houston, give up 1st round picks and more, then fail to Win a Premiership?

We will have no solid picks to build a team around. Instead, the club will resort to getting recycled players to fill the Gaps and seek success that is doomed and will never happen.


If we are in a premiership window, then wouldn't you be trying to add mature talent to your list to make the final push?

You can't rebuild a team while pushing for a premiership at the same time.
Giving up one future first is hardly putting us on track to doom.
Houston should deliver for us for the next 3-5 years at least, enough time for Wilson, Campo boys, pick 11 & 31 this draft to mature.
Our Captain is only 30 next year, he's got a few more years IMO.
The only other key players getting to the pointy end in the next couple are Newman, Saad & Doc.
We are already drafting and putting players in place to take over from them and Houston is one of those for a few extra years.
And maybe Lord is going to be Cripps replacement.
This is what clubs like Geelong have been doing for the better part of a decade.
So I'm confused as to why it's so dramatic for us to be doing the same.
Just remember, Cook would have laid all the ground work for us to be competitive and continually build on our list in the same manner Geelong has.
We just need to remove some injured players and add some speed and skill and we will be ok.
Houston has both that and is a guaranteed, unlike a draft pick 2 drafts away.

And if we want to keep attracting good mature talent like Geelong then we need to be playing finals every year.
Topping up a list now using picks should help us top up our list without using them in the future.
Geelong have the oldest list again this year and could well be in another GF.



:clap: exactly. we gotta push for a flag with cripps as captain. when he leaves we're going to have a void this club and culture could take another decade to fill. it's now. we move now. so, agree with it all, sid.


i'd take houston over SDK too ... SDK and weiters seems too tall and immobile and too much salary tied up in fullbacks? we don't need two number one bananas down back (like our forwardline has), we need a one & a clear two, imo.

we'd only get sdk if we're not planning on signing weiters in 2025/ 26.

Houston is 5 years younger than tom stewart, and they play very similar games. it's fathomable that houston gives us half a decade of solid football - and so does as of right now, charlie, weiters and mckay who are all from the same draft class.


it's doable to get houston, a quality mid and keep our #11. i don't like how we're tied to the campo twins. one seems decent and will fill a need of mid depth and will be coming right on, as cripps starts to slow down to fyfe levels. the other, lucas, seems like he's going to be more of the silvagni ilk - nothing that puts us over the top like the ashcroft or daicos boys


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 11:13 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
Braithy wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
why would reid go to essenscum, am i missing something?



grew up a bombers supporter, trained with them under a pathways program and apparently told some around the club he'll be back there one day. the word was he'd take a big pay cut to play with them. which imo, is what you'd need to land him and still have a team to put together around him.

but west coast is going to offer him 20 mil and 12 years if you believe the media - so that kinda money might could change things



No, he grew up supporting Geelong

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