none of them are anywhere near elite tho - hence the worst defense in the comp, and worst at defensive stoppage scores against.


one elite half back can change everything.

I was never a big fan of Dwayne Russell, too Geelong focused, but his appearance on The Front Bar was a good thing for him. (Humanised him). This article here is ok.

He makes some good points. Top 4 has to be the minimum requirement next year. I get that injuries cruelled the season, but hopefully you build the foundations next year so that you can ride out some of those periods. re: the Elimination Final...we don't know how injured DeKoening was...so starting as a sub might have been having a bet each way. That mistake isn't a big one for me. Carlton was unlikely to win that match either way with the team selected.

It is more his determination to give Fantasia & Carroll and a few others a run in the team despite periods of poor form. Those matches could have been used to build up exposure of Lord (midfielder) and Moir (forward). Anyway, I think Vossy deserves the benefit of the doubt with a tough season with injury meaning mistakes are compounded. The dropping of Hewett really confused me. He is an elite player (or close to it) in my opinion. Another one was dropping Owies for Fantasia vs GWS. Anyway, live and learn.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/09/15/ ... m-of-2024/

ˆˆ yeah i read that too. a good article.

i think whatever happens this offseason, the early rumblings seem clear about improving our bottom 6 and thinning out the replication in the list (1-speed mids) and upgrading a few too many of our c-graders.

making cerra and kennedy available. potentially upgrading boyd with houston; a small to replace durdin/motlop/owies, finding a 2nd banana beside weiters (not sure haynes is that?)

drafting in some pace and quality for the middle.


after doing nothing last offseason and reloading with the same list and hoping to go one better - and failing, this offseason has to have an exclamation on it for mine. or this window will slam shut and with cripps getting closer to 30, we'll have had two brownlow mids in our possession in the last 2 decades and not even had a whiff of a GF.

it's exciting to see where this summer takes us, even if it means some good players are shipped out (for better ones).

Yeah, agreed. We lost a lot of games by small margins so with less injuries hopefully they become wins in 2025. eg vs Bulldogs Rd 19 went with Cottrell (recently injured) and Marchbank (always injured)...small team selection differences due to injury can impact.

I would be willing to trade the 1st round pick for Houston. Our defence looked a bit wobbly this year. I guess others will weigh up the long term benefit of losing a 1st Round pick...and whether it is good policy. There is a lot more to consider than what we can see.

F1 for Houston. Port can flip it into current year if they want.

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I’m not convinced Houston is the messiah, we already have good ball users coming off hb, the problem is there’s no one to kick too. How many times have we seen Saad, or Newman, or Weitering, or Boyd get the ball at hb, look up and all they see are statues down the line. If Houston has no one making space to kick too he will be no more useful than what we have. It’s more a coaching problem than a player ability problem.

I agree he would be a very good addition, but not for a first round pick.

Agree

You get the game plan right first, then recruit to serve

I don’t see us maximising our investment (whatever they high price maybe) getting Houston in, unless we are prepared to go beyond our bash/crash, bomb it approach

Flipping it around, if our current list was regularly on the park AND we had a modified game would we be a better side….yes, I think we would.

there's been lots of times those guys you mention have intercepted etc, and we've had targets upfield and they've badly missed it for a turnover.

our turnover numbers from D50 we're among the worst in the league. our ball movement from D50 was the worst.


i think we saw enough this season to suggest mcgovern is on his way out, saad is in decline and boyd maybe not up to it. that's the guys we're gonna rely on in 2025 to move the ball from D50?

we're in trouble, imo.

even when our pressure & turnover scoring was up and about this season, we were still the league worst in D50 to F50 scoring.

regardless of getting houston or not, we need to fix this area if we want a flag. and i'm not sure the current group of half backs are any good, tbh...

Hang on braithy, I was under the impression you blame the coach and his assistants for our mess during games and prior with their tactics and selections.
The Line coach for defense is Hamill. Is he the problem, or is it the players?

Saad AA . You can't hang him for that goal at stoppage costing us the game. Great kick
Newman is AA standard. Great kick.
Docherty is AA but we have recruited Williams which frees up Doc. Great kick.
Boyd is a great kick but his role changes by the week: Lock down or line breaker.

Then there's Weitering AA
McGovern and Kemp too small for the KPD.
Young KPD was really bad but looked better than Weiters in the last 3 games

The issues I see with the defense is instability, and coaching.
Voss seems to give the players different roles each week looking for the best mix.
Gov/ Kemp are not KPD's and Haynes next year will be ahead of both for 2025.

Furthermore the previous year our defense was our strongest area. So what went wrong this year?

The leader of the defensive group is Weitering. Is he the problem? or is it coaching? Because it aint kicking.

I thought we looked great running the ball out of defense when we were playing with that as part of the plan.
Whether it was Chinka running out with Saady or Cottrell we can do it.
The stop start game is an issue. The kick ins is an issue. Neither of those are deceisions players make before game.

I will welcome Houston for a future first, but NOT 2 first rounders. He's AA, but he is not the Messiah.
If Young or another player can fill the KPD spot in 2025, and release Weiters to intercept, that will be helpful.

All year your issue with defense was the KPD, the stoppage leaks, the kicks ins, but not the kicking from HB.


We can cover Houston with the talent we have.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Exactly

HBs get the ball and they look up to ... statues...OR do as instructed...kick it down the line to the rucks. Shit ball.
Hasnt changed since Malthouse days. Has to change.

Get Houston and the same thing happens. He look sup to ....statues.

We lost a lot of close games Crows 2 Geelong 13, Pies 6, GWS 12, Dogs 16, Port 14, Pies 3.

Yep we lost a couple 1 goals games at stoppages. One was Walsh on Daicos and the other Saady on whoever that was, and the Crows game was just lazy. We win those and we can rest Curnow and others rather than selecting him like a desperado till he dropped, ditto Doc selection, should never have been needed. TDK playing sore and on his own vs bigger ruckmen Briggs and Xerri.

I am not giving 2 first rounders for a HBF. No way.

2 first rounders for 28yo Heeney, sure! He will help us win a flag
2 first rounders for 21yo Gulden, sure! He will help us win Flags.
2 first rounders for JHF, sure! He will help us win Flags.

Mids!! and KP's = 2 first rounders NOT HBs

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

My problem with the defence is they are not composed. They panic with the ball. They seem timid to go near the forwards for fear of giving away a free kick.

And the midfield losing clearance to send the ball into our backline so easily and often.

There is only so much you can do to stickytape the holes in a leaky bucket.

We need to concentrate on the midfield in my opinion. Its out biggest issue.

Unlike other teams the midfield doesnt run back to help, dont run forward to kick goals.

Our ruckman doesnt help forward or back. (Pitto that is).

We are mentioning Weitering, Newman, and Saad as all Australian. They are very shaky, i dont have any confidence in them defending at all as a unit. Weitering cant do it all.

I cant explain it. Newman miskicks one too many times. Saad runs off and doesnt run back to defend once he kicks and we dont get the ball. Weitering has to do it all and sometimes cant keep up once the ball is slinged back.

McGovern. Well he is soft and doesnt defend like a top notch player. More of a lose ball get type of guy.

We need a strong tall dependable back. And strong and fit midfielders to contest and not let the ball into our backline so easily and quickly.

We often talk about Carltonising players we trade or draft in. I think that will happen to Houston. I dont think it is worth us giving up so much for him. Williams was an amazing defender and runner at GWS and also a decent mid.

What is he and his big contract up to now? Hmmmmm we probably would love to get him off our books now wouldnt we.

I getcha

We have pick 11. Bets player may play in 2025
We are working on packaging 31 and later picks for something in the early 20's for a KPD

If we can have 2 great picks before Ben Campo that would be ideal.

We may offer F1 plus late picks and a player for a FWD Ruck or a KPD or Houston

I'm a 2 ruck fan for insurance in a Final. Pitto is not a 3rd forward, whereas TDK is.
If TDK plays No 1 ruck, as he should, then SOS becomes really important next year as a Fwd Ruck, and we can overlook Pitto.
If SOS hss lost a yard following ACL, then we will have the same issues with the 2 rucks next year.

ie We have greater priorities than HB for 2025 imo.

I don't think the current game plan suits Houston, but some of the styles we played this year do.
Vossy will decide if he can use Houston to help him change his preference for the contested game, and if Houston can change the game plan, he's worth what you think braithy

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

voss is the loudest at the club in his desire for houston, fwiw.


i think you're living in the past a bit, BB ... doc is miles off AA and probably closer to retirement. newman gets so much ball bcos the oppo sag off him and rather curtail gov and saad bcos they know newman won't hurt you. newman had the most turnovers by foot in our back six.

i have doubts boyd will make it.
williams is the worst defender we've had back there since matthew watson.
cowan will be excellent - a peter dean type that you need. Him and weiters are untouchable.
saad lost his man in multiple games, multiple times at stoppage and conceded goals. he's definitely lost a step of speed too. if he's in decline, we're in a world of trouble unless we get another half back who can damage the opposition.

hell, there's logic there that says saad and houston could run riot together. what a nightmare to match up on, that woul be, huh?

a season is a long time in footy. and, you can't deny stats. worst in the league for D50 to F50 movement. 3rd most points allowed, worst defensive stoppage team from D50 in the league. 4th most turnovers exiting our D50.


i'm on the record of going all out in '25 for a flag.

if we're willing to give up harry and cerra, there's no reason why we can't bring in:

Houston
a gun mid with run and overlap
an a-grade small forward
keep #11 and draft someone like joe berry (a connor rozee comaprison)
campo twins.

effectively we're freeing up more cap than we're spending under that scenario, we're still getting draft picks, but we are losing players that people are attached to.

i'm only attached to the club and to winning ... so if we get houston or not, i don't care. if we trade cerra or H, i really don't give a rats.

just do something, don't reload with the same list (like last summer) and think better health is our only deficiency and alls we need is a few draft picks in the bank for the future.

i want to go on a run in september '25 and bring home a flag, and we're going to have to spice the list up for that, imo. and maybe replace hansen with a quality assistant too

Braithy you are 100% correct on Newman not hurting opposition with kicking. Saad running and kicking and we dont get the ball and we are exposed in defence.

I agree Doc is past it too. I dont rate Boyd either.

Weitering and Cowan are the only A grade defenders we have right now.

It would be nice if our game plan can cover Saads runs and if we get houston him too.

But we seem to take all the flare and joy out of our players when they come to the club. Been like this for years.

Voss chops and changes positions so much, no one can settle and gel.

We need change, but not for the sake of it. We need quality pieces to play in their RIGHTFUL positions.

And we can give away the farm for one player only.

No way is Cowan an A-grade defender at present. He does have the potential to have a great Carlton career, though, and should be on the team sheet every week.

I do see the appeal of Houston and Saad running off the back flank together. Potentially very damaging. But I also agree we need to a change in tactics to make it work. Under our current approach, quick two-way mids are the priority.

I should have said Cowan has huge potential. Not there yet for sure.

But he is the tough type with good kicking we need to develop further.

lets get the basics right before giving the farm away

im all in on winning a flag too, lets not stop at 2025

I don't subscribe though to it all being about players.....look at the teams still competing, they have plenty of holes, they tend to be very good at system and having multiple gears.

Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.