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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 12:52 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Do we go for Houston if it costs us our first round pick in this years draft?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:15 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Location: Australia
carntheblues wrote:
Do we go for Houston if it costs us our first round pick in this years draft?

No


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:16 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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carntheblues wrote:
Do we go for Houston if it costs us our first round pick in this years draft?



i think we're going to make available our 1st round pick next year. the hope is to trade that to richmond for one of their many 1st rounders and we use that to get houston & get to keep #11


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
jpulice1969 wrote:
if owies leaves do we get draft pick, and on sen said we are trying to deal with tigers , give them 2025 first rnd pick in exchange for one there first rnd this year. Then we hand over tigers first rnd if (deal happens)
to port for Houston (I would rather go to draft ). i would be very disappointed if recruit Haynes 33yr old and Houston 28 yrs old what have we learned from past

I may be wrong here but I was of the understanding that if a player is not offered a contract they can delist themselves and become a DFA.
If this is the case then a club would not want to do a trade rather they would wait and get them for nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 2:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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carntheblues wrote:
Do we go for Houston if it costs us our first round pick in this years draft?


Not this year. Our best bet might be to get another first rounder next year and offer them two 2025 first rounders, but even that might not satisfy Port. Simply have to use the pick this year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 2:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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DocSherrin III wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Do we go for Houston if it costs us our first round pick in this years draft?


Not this year. Our best bet might be to get another first rounder next year and offer them two 2025 first rounders, but even that might not satisfy Port. Simply have to use the pick this year.



not sure of the truth to it ... but port were hoping for two 1sts, one this, and the other next year. so providing richmond takes our first for next year and gives us one of theirs for this draft. one down, one to go for houston.


would cerra give us a 1st next year?


... lots of rumours out there saying, for a handsome price if you're wanting to pay it, Harry is available from us.


would people here take houston and a gun mid if we all give up is harry?


*it's probs just nothing but rumours, so it's just pipedreaming going on here from me.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:33 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 374
if the club gives 2 first rnd for Houston , they are making a big mistake like taking 1 step fwd and 2 steps backwards must learn from the past ,judd,kennedy, we gave first rnd for saad , keep our early draft and keep building, can someone tell Austin and co


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 4:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
Judd and Saad were All-Australians.
That’s like saying we used 1st round picks on Dow, OBrien, SPS, Stocker etc so we need to learn from this and give them away every year.
It is possible to balance between trading in established players AND also going to the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 6:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2782
Location: dudley!!!
i feel trading young would be a mistake, unless we get another kpd. haynes and durdin aint it. we need insurance for weiters, and young did better than most against the lions

our kpd depth is dire, i wouldnt get rid of what little we have

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
No doubting Houston’s quality… but, I just can’t see how recruiting another half back flanker is going to put us over the top.

Speed forward of centre, absolutely. But another rebounder looking for targets that aren’t there… yeah nah.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Crusader wrote:
No doubting Houston’s quality… but, I just can’t see how recruiting another half back flanker is going to put us over the top.

Speed forward of centre, absolutely. But another rebounder looking for targets that aren’t there… yeah nah.


coaching has to absolutely figure out how to get our targets open and downfield. dwayne russell was scathing of voss and coaching this morning - the long bombs to the void of nothing, the constricted ball movement and questionable match selections etc hard to disagree with russell on his points. he thinks our list is much better than 8th (so do i) we just need a handful of pieces. and houston fixes so much of our play.

do you watch much of houston play? he's an attacking gun with the ball in his hands. plays much bigger than his size too (leads port in intercepts). he's like a clone between saad and mcgovern, with a much better kick off either foot.

but more than that, he has grit. he tackles, and they stay tackled. something our backs have no idea about.

saad was quite ordinary this season, boyd much less than ordinary and cowan probably not ready for a 24 game season. mcgovern is soft and contact adverse - and houston covers all those holes and stiffens us up a bit at the back and from defensive stoppage.



our list profile has a window that's open now and the next 2 seasons. drafting isn't and has never been our strength. there are some can't miss picks in this '24 draft. if we can keep #11 and get houston, we just have to, imo


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10482
Braithy wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Couldn’t disagree more with Braithy.
The obsession with cutting the list deep, does not sit well with me.
Some need to be careful what they wish for. We aren’t rebuilding.


why is that surrey? do you believe this list can win a flag? or are you (emotionally) invested into this current mob?

for me ... we reloaded the same list last season and went again hoping to go one better than a prleim, and we digressed and went backwards. we weren't even in the hunt, and only beat norf and eagles since june. JUNE! and we were wiped off the park by the lions in an elim. something has to give here, and praying for good health or better health isn't much of a plan, imo. bcos what if this list even when healthy isn't up to it?

fwiw, i don't think the list is.

some list rejuvenation is necessary to progress. it tells the current mob, not to get complacent, and to stay at your maximum. it also gives us a few fresh looks and new ways of playing that other teams and coaches will have to counter.

hawks - very successful this season, and they had 8 new arrivals from other clubs. pies won their flag and had 6 new guys arrive in the offseason. list rejuvenation is a must to progress.


imo, this list wasn't winning a flag. even when fit, there's flaws. too one dimensional and 1-paced thru the middle. too charlie and harry- centric in attack where we just bomb it long and cross our fingers.

and team defense was deplorable. a league worst in many areas. to overcome that for 2025, we need more foot speed to pursue and disrupt the other team. we need another key back if they decide young isn't up to task, and we need some dynamism and creativity in the forwardline among the smalls.

but more than all of that, there's two areas we actually suck at. our tackling & the way we move the ball is our absolute achilles. league worst from D50 to F50 ball movement and scoring.

houston immediately improves both. leads port in tackle success % and tackles made and intercepts. along with his league best kicking disposal.

i've said it before, if kennedy was as mobile as walsh, he'd be an all australian. but he isn't, he's lumbering. cerra can be good, and he can disappear in a game and he can also be injured.

if we can improve the list, and upgrade some positions to make us more competitive, why would we oppose that?


Most this is coaching. As an example playing Cripps, Hewett and or Kennedy together in the midfield. Kicking long into the forward line and not setting up with small forwards. I could go on but I’m sure you get the drift.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 14343
Location: Sydney
deano35 wrote:
I have heard that Young , Cerra and Kennedy have been told to find new clubs if they have suitors


Strange considering he played every game this season and ranked equal 3rd in my MVP voting, but Kennedy is perhaps the one I'm least unfussed about if we trade. He battles hard and is versatile, but I think especially if JSOS comes back strong then he is expendable. I also wonder if he sort of holds us back by being too good to drop, but not a good match for a team that already has Cripps and Hewett. You can see Voss tried to solve this quandary by dropping Hewett- big mistake - and then playing Kennedy anywhere but midfield. Let's say we did bring in Houston, then that could see Kemp primarily used as a forward, and then you have the aforementioned JSOS and Moir... hard to see where Kennedy fits in. His stock is as high as it's going to get, and he might want to go somewhere he can play his favored position. As for the other two, I think we have to keep Young, and Cerra is a tough call but I think I lean towards seeing what the new S&C regime can do.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:46 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
Have to agree with Surrey here.

Some tactical commonsense & a change of fortunes with injuries… we can beat any one of these four remaining sides.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 9:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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it's a tough one for me. our best is/ was ridiculous. but i wonder if i'm already living in the past - i'm worried we've peaked with this list and coaching?

our record since june is impossible to ignore and for many of those games we had close to a full list to chose from. that 4 game stretch ruined us and we never recovered (gws, dogs, barely got past norf & lost tdk and then smacked by port).


our best footy we played in the whole last half of the season was against the saints. that old endeavour and hunt and pressure was back. i'd love to know how we tap back into it. bcos Vs the lions, we were pitiful. no pressure, no hunger, no heart.


i think we need to thin out our list, and i'm positive the club is onto this. matthew lloyd said as much when he said along the lines of "carlton know they have too many c-graders and this offseason they're going to remedy as much of that as they can" ...

hence the whole kennedy, cerra and young talk of being available.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 10:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Narre Warren VIC
I am not Keen on Houston for 2 reasons:


1- He will come at a cost. We will have to give up a lot to get him

2- I know deep down that the minute he lands at Carlton, he will pull a hamstring, then an ankle then a Knee and he will be a long term injury prone player. It just wont work :donk: :donk: :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 11:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
Crusader wrote:
Not that there isn’t plenty of life still in Newman, McGovern, Saad, Docherty & Williams…

Defenders under 30*:

B: Boyd (26) Weitering (27) Cowan (20)
HB: Kemp (24) Young (26) Wilson (20)

Hewett (29) Cincotta (28) J.Carroll (22) O.Hollands (21) Duffy? (21) L.Camporeale? (19)

I wouldn’t rule out a trade for McGovern back to WA. It might weaken us, but he’s got a moveable contract & still has some value - maybe a pick in the 40s.

We’re full to the brim with half backs.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 11:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1946
I agree with Braithy, we need to be ruthless and upset the apple cart a bit and trade some of the nice boys.

Too many of our supporters get too emotionally attached to players because of their personalities and gloss over their deficiencies.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17954
Crusader wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Not that there isn’t plenty of life still in Newman, McGovern, Saad, Docherty & Williams…

Defenders under 30*:

B: Boyd (26) Weitering (27) Cowan (20)
HB: Kemp (24) Young (26) Wilson (20)

Hewett (29) Cincotta (28) J.Carroll (22) O.Hollands (21) Duffy? (21) L.Camporeale? (19)

I wouldn’t rule out a trade for McGovern back to WA. It might weaken us, but he’s got a moveable contract & still has some value - maybe a pick in the 40s.

We’re full to the brim with half backs.


The back half will be the interesting watch over the next couple of months. We cant play with Weitering, Kemp and McGovern as our 3 talls like we did a lot this year. We were exposed for height later in the season and both Kemp and McGovern struggle in the contest.
I also wouldn't be concerned to see Mitch leave. I like his ball use but when the tough moments come and you have to commit your body, he failed the test too many times. You have to set standards and it was a kid in Cowan that was setting them.

Weitering, Boyd, Newman, Saad, Cowan are best back 7 at the moment IMHO. The challenge is there for Young and Kemp to improve their footy and take those other spots (I'm not overly confident with Kemp) or for the recruiting staff to get creative over the off season. Wilson has promise but he'll have to push out one of the others. We need to add at least one 195cm+ defender and a reliable 3rd tall to the mix.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:44 am 
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Geoff Southby
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I'd expect Kemp to be training with the forwards over summer.

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