many of those 22 wins were unconvincing. playing 1 or 2 quarters of good footy. it always had the feeling the results were flattering us. feels like we've been waiting forever for this current coaching staff to stop tinkering with the game plan and list and go for the throat and string together 4-qtr football.

the slow possession playing, long bombs to contests down the wings and excruciating forward entry while teams flooded back and strangled us. then break out quick and spread and of course win the running race to the other end for a goal.

then we opened this season, one ruck, high pressure, creating more turnover than any other club, it's like the coaching staff went to work in summer to play a game plan that stands up in september and seemingly steers away from the big body, contested football where we unsustainably try and bludgeon every team in the comp for 24 rounds and finals. hopes were high, and went 10-1 playing that way.

then we try pittonet, bcos cripps pushed hard for his inclusion, bcos cripps wants the ball in his hands out of the middle. we rush cerra and cottrell back. the afl change the htb rule and our players are too slow to adjust and our coaches clueless about coaching the adjustments. we've bought in big strong bodies to stand up in tackles, and now the whistle blows before we can extract the ball & do that. and we're too slow to catch the other team thru the middle.

and now here we are. ripping up the turf at princess park, pushing the high performance manager out the door to solve the injuries ... its good, it's a start. but wholesale changes are needed. this list isn't winning. these coaches aren't coaching, the scouts aren't scouting and the draft bozos are not drafting.

I don't buy the theory that 22 out of 28 was flattering to deceive. That's like saying Collingwood's flag was a fluke. Would be lovely if it was true, but eventually the pattern tells a story.

I do agree that tinkering with the gameplan at 11-4 with easier fixtures coming up was hubristic in the extreme. The rule re-interpretation was a cruel blow, typical @#$%&! AFL to put its finger on the scale when we're flying.

If you say that our 22 of 28 was down to fine margins and only partial dominance of matches, then you have to consider the reverse. This year: lost to Adelaide based on just a few minutes of bad footy by us/good footy by them. Lost to Collingwood because of a shank after the siren. Lost to GWS because our 2 great quarters were not as great as their 2 great quarters. Hell, even though we might have lost against Hawthorn, the margin was down to injuries. We've only been soundly thrashed twice. You don't have to dominate every moment of every game to be a great team. Be realistic. The side on top of the ladder has 6 losses including a 112-point belting with only two first-23 players out.

And Setterfield.

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There is no footy god

I know we've been crap for several weeks but way back in the season a couple of us commented that the loss to Adelaide earlier in the season would come back to bite us .... 2 more weeks and we find out.

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

Think we are already bitten.

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dane's trolling again

Lot of dropped marks yesterday.

Our very own “streak”, when’s the DVD coming out?

Some pretty intemperate comments in here.

We've fallen out of form. When we're good, we can be very good (i.e. against Geelong in rnd 15). Unfortunately injuries, some good players in poor form, and, it has to be said, a rigidity in selection has caught up with us at the wrong time of year.

Remember, the last time a team torched us we then went on a 5 week winning streak. If we do that again...

What about the Freo game in Adelaide?
It’s all relative
The fact is that the rule changes have really exposed us as a team
Our style of bash and crash footy doesn’t stack up and even if the rules didn’t change you can only sustain it for around half a season
The dam wall well and truly broke after quarter time
Even with a full list I don’t think we are able to win number 17
We get scored against way too easily particularly from stoppage
We are middle of the table for inside 50s due to poor movement
You need pace and skill to cut through the opposition from the back half
Then when we get it into the forward 50 we are bottom tier for marks inside 50 this despite Curnow and McKay
What does that tell you
We don’t have the personal to play fast flow footy changing angles etc
And our lack of leg speed across the ground makes us so vulnerable to turnover

The game continues to evolve rapidly
Crash and bash footy our trade mark is already redundant and teams have worked us out

It will be interesting to see what the List Management team do in 6 weeks time

In my opinion we simply have to start again because of Tasmania coming in

As much as I love Cripps and Walsh do you trade one of them
You may get 2 first round picks
That’s 2 first round picks in the next 2 years to get 4 quality kids
And look for talent everywhere
Watching Mannagh and Humphries doing good things at Geelong for nothing in terms of draft picks continues to piss me off
There are obviously other factors
Coaching
Culture
But I maintain it starts with recruiting

Funny.

Why are you and others putting so much weight on 6 games and so little on 28? I realise it feels good to vent, I did plenty of my own yesterday and might not be done yet, but it's not exactly enlightened thinking. If we want to talk about where the club goes from here, toys out of pram is unlikely to be a winning approach.

PTSD

Do we know that as fact Braithy?
If so, I find it concerning
Again...I'm just asking

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

ah mate. i love the optimism. but we could be without charles, saad, boyd, mcgovern for the season.

add to martin and fogerty for the season to the already hefty list. none more hefty than tdk.

i think the goose is cooked.

I think that's a bit unfair, people are allowed to vent, especially after a big loss to a team in rebuild.
Personally I wasn't shocked by the result, I'd already congratulated my Hawks mate on a win before the bounce and when we started to get more injuries I knew a flogging was coming.
We were just lucky it wasn't against Sydney, GWS, Adelaide, Brisbane, Doggies, Pies, GC, Fremantle or even St Kilda who all have more midfield speed than us and are a lot more damaging.
However, I do agree with the rest of your post.
Injuries have crippled us and being one paced has caused a lot of our injuries.
We have to play a hard contested game and our players are always pushing themselves to the max because of our lack of pace, especially against teams like the Dorks.
Like any club, injuries have been our biggest issue, I have no issue with our coaching or AR to a degree, you can't spit polish a turd and some of our players are just prone to injuries.
Our recruiting has been dismal as has our player development for far too long and we are still reaping the "rewards" of it today, as a result we still have a lot of players that should not be on a list and there are no signs of it changing anytime soon. SOS as we all know really done our midfield no favours but neither has Austin, I'd say they are both pretty average at addressing our shortfalls in this area.

Anyway 2 more games to go, let's hope we have a good show in both even though we are so depleted of talent and fingers crossed we remove a heap of annually injured players on, cancel the contracts on a few dead wood types and this will be tough for Austin but to be creative at the trade table and get in some established talent along with a good first rounder and the Campo twins.
And please for the love of god, only bring in speed and skill with little to no history of injuries.

yeah mate, voss let it slip in a presser. his words (i paraphrase here)

"crippa is into me every day to include the big fella (pittonet) into the team, so i better keep him happy"


... at one time with sole ruck tdk this season we were #2 offensive rated and #1 defensive rated - highest turnover and pressure team in the comp and for the last 5 weeks lowest points allowed. cue flag talks.


from that, to this. it's been a stunning turnaround.

Whilst injuries, confidence and form are all there, I am convinced there is conflict/disconnect/division in the locker room

It may not be hemorrhaging or fatal because yesterday was our first belting (with all the injuries)...but something has happened that we are not privy to which has taken 5% off their game

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

That is concerning for me anyway!!!

He's the captain so he's entitled to an informed opinion on selection

BUT...if he wants Pitto just because TDK doesn't give him silver service and plays more like a midfielder...at a time when we are flying, it says alot about his leadership and whether he wants what's best for the team and not what's best for himself

Pitto in (when they were both rucking) meant that we dropped a midfielder. How would Kennedy and Hewett have felt?

I accept the fact that I'm extrapolating but something is wrong with the playing group. Our mids have been deplorable these last 6 weeks or so...get smashed every week

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

No doubt something has gone wrong in the last 6 weeks, outside of injury.

I can't get that vision out of my head watching players running their guts out in the last. Desperate dives to smother and chases that were never going to catch anyone.

Is our game plan unsustainable with the personnel we have on our list? I have no idea.

What I do know, is I still can't stomach McGovern. He is a pretender. He doesn't like contact, and was never helpful as the 3rd tall up. Kemp is playing a position he isnt made for. He is no CHB, yet Gov wants to point the finger.

Its those little things I look for. Things that show a lack of team harmony and support. AFL is a game of attrition. Vossy's game is based on pressure and contest, and players like Gov have no interest in the hurt factor of AFL.

Pitto is not fit. He's on one leg. he has been for 3 years. When he was fit during the year, he not only rucked well and handled the big boys, he led the team in clearances. That has all dried up.

Our mids are not putting any type of pressure on their opponent yesterday: physical or perceived.

I'm at a loss. The team playing yesterday does not resemble the team which beat the Cats 7 weeks ago. Why ? FIIK.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Went to the game, didn't expect a win. Hawks strength (leg speed) is our weakness, but expected better than that even with our mandatory injury before quarter time. I've never left a game early, but I bailed with about five minutes to go, I never thought I'd do that. It's the hope that kills you, and my hopes have been dashed yet again.

I came home from the North game and said we mightn't win another game this year. Looks like I may well be right.

Haven't been to a game against Hawks for years, nothing has changed, still the worst supporters. A classic example sitting right in front of me. Fat, neckless bozo with two kids who looked just like dad. Bozo didn't cheer a Hawks goal or good play, it was all about denigrating Carlton. Sneered at us Carlton supporters behind him at 3/4 time as he moved to get out of the sun, then made some comment about how far Hawks were in front. I turned to the young bloke next to me and remarked with surprise on bozo's maths skills, at least he didn't fire up.

Clean out time I reckon, players, recruiters, coaches, I'd stick with Vossy but nearly everyone else should be on notice, something is seriously wrong. I'm 73yo, I thought this year or next was my last best chance to see another premiership; good luck with that.

it also coincides when we started playing hero ball out of the middle.


we've barely won a game since all this.

edit - @ prelim99