Agree with your post.

There were others in Dow’s place against the Lions, and we were smashed in an area where he is very strong. He’s also a better mover than most of our other mids.

With Crippa hobbled and having to also deal with Dunkley who did an excellent job on him earlier this year, apart from Walsh, no other mids picked up the slack. We couldn’t win the ball, which was entirely predictable.

I like how Cornes says TDK is "emerging as a very good player" a year after saying we needed to offer him at least 1 million per year. Gee, I'd have thought for that coin you'd expect someone who was already top tier. @#$%&! wit.

Jake’s post from the Paddy Dow thread…

“Some interesting stats on Dow which show his effectiveness at centre bounces.

Dow is already 4th at Carlton for Centre Clearances, only 2 behind Hewett in 3rd. This is despite only playing 4 full games (5 more as sub)

Even more impressive, he has the best rate of Centre Clearances per Centre Bounce Attendances at the club, and by some distance.

Dow has 20 CC's from 99 CBA's. so 20% of the centre bounces he attends he gets a clearance.

The next best are
Kennedy - 14% (18 from 131)
Cripps - 13% (55 from 426)
Cerra - 13% (34 from 259)
Docherty - 9% (11 from 126)
Hewett - 8% (22 from 274)
TDK - 8% (16 from 272)

Interestingly, Fog is also right up there with 19%, but its such a small sample size (6 from 31)

This kind of sums up what the Dow believers have always seen in him. He has the ability to read the play off the ruck contest, get hands on he ball, and then has an elite burst of pace and sidestep to get separation and avoid the tackle, resulting in a succesful clearance. These are the unique strengths which make him elite in this part of the game.

As long as he is working on his deficiencies and improving them, which appears to be the case, I think we need to hang on to him. The ability to win the ball from the centre bounce is too valuable to just let him go. I think most would be surprised to learn he's winning 50% more centre clearances than all our other mids, including Cripps.”

Thanks for the support, gents.


Lots of good points in this thread on both sides of arguments. Thoroughly enjoying it.

I'd like to keep Dow
however

on the % shit - just be careful of stats. Who did he play against? How did the club go in that match? Was he tagged, was he tagging? Was he the mid that ran hard to relieve the handball off one of the other mids? etc etc etc The stats do not look at who against who, when etc.

Also like any stat its about length of time and the size of the samples, etc.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I'm a fan of Dow but being "our best clearance player" extends well beyond centre clearances. In our finals matches there was an approximate average of 5 centre clearances per quarter. So let's give Paddy his one possession based on the stats you provided. There's 4 possessions per game assuming he plays a full game which he rarely does.
There are also around 48 stoppage clearances per game. Dow averages 1.8. That is his downfall. Take him away from the centre bounce and his contribution drops away significantly. So suggesting he is our best clearance player is misrepresentation of the stats IMHO. Dow and others get clearance opportunities because Cripps is tagged and/or double teamed at many stoppages. And yet Cripps still averages 4.2 stoppage clearances per game.
The best players have multiple strings to their bow. Hewett can put the clamps on opposition mids. Cerra wins a lot more ball and uses it significantly better. Walsh is an elite runner. Dow's issue has always been that he offers good centre square value but little else. I'd be happy to keep him but I doubt we will. IMHO, he's not in our best 5 midfielders. The club have persevered trying to get him to add to his game but he hasn't been able to.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yeah. If Paddy is a 20% superstar for that stat…

Who wins the other 80% - us or them?
Who’s he in there with on the 20%?
Who’s in there on the other 80%

It’s not a one-on-one contest.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

What people (Surrey in particular) are failing to understand re Dow is that he’s uncontracted. You can bet SOS will want to get him for free and we will get nothing unless another club is willing to pay his price and we put him into the PSD.

If I were Austin, I’d be trying to get other clubs to tell SOS that they’ll take Dow in PSD. 3 years at ok coin is something the Swans would do and the Swans puck before the Saints in PSD.

We’ve got no leverage here and need to play the bluff.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

You are right CC. Nothing from Nothing is not much, so for Austin, it is bluff or nada.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Can't be bothered.

Im sorry but i find it bull that we have no leverage and we just let him walk where he wants. He will only be a free agent if we delist him and that would be just silly. If by logic all out of contract players just walk to the clubs of their choice then why have a trade period. True Dow can walk in the pre season draft but thats on him as someone else may take him before he gets to where he wants.

So if he is not willing to work with us and get traded, i would chuck him in the draft and he can take his chances.

So Mr Dow, there is West Coast, North Melbourne, Hawthorn etc that may snap you up before St Kilda.

We trade for everyone. We wanted to trade for Jack Martin but Gold Coast didnt want to at the time as they were being stubborn. We risked it and got him in the end but that doesnt always work.

Tom Morris is saying that there is already a stoush brewing between SOS and Carlton regarding Dow.
Says Carlton is adamant that there has to be a trade, Saints saying that they can get him as a delisted free agent or via the PSD.
Apparently SOS does not want to give up a pick for a player that he thinks is not wanted by his club.
This could get nasty and Dow will be caught up in the middle.

Let’s face to most players traded are not wanted for the most part. So SOS you bitter and twisted so and so.

And St Kilda still wanting what Carlton have since the 80’s. You will never be us so stop trying.

A poster on BF, Forty3, who usually has good mail has posted that Dow more likely to request trade to Sydney at this point.
Interesting.
If true this would probably be better of us as the Swans are usually pretty good to deal with.

Another poster is saying we are one of the clubs who has lots of interest in Josh Sinn from Port.

And this is where Sydney steps in.

Dow did a medical with Swans, so its not all SOS' way.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

East Brighton boy.

Like very very much

Quick.

How would Port let this happen? He was taken quite high and only a couple years ago.

I'm guessing there may be some home sickness in the play.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytuFYz3dJEc

Port would be interesting to deal with. They seem to be wanting to bring a few in this draft so a few might go for picks.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

What leverage do we have?

Sure his contract only expires at the last available time and so we can choose not to delist him until after trade period.

But if he doesn’t have a signed contract then he’s automatically delisted when his contract ends.

Then he’s fair game for anyone. That’s SOS’ game. If Dow was to do the right thing by us, he’ll go anywhere and if we can find someone decent to deal with like Sydney, then SOS will need to offer something.

Either way, unless someone offers us something and he wants out, then he goes for nothing. And there’s nothing we can do about that.

The only leverage we have, as I said above, is that more than one club wants him and there’s a bidding war. If only 1 club is interested, Dow’s gone for free.

We got Martin in for free because Gold Coast were pig headed like Port were with Nick Stevens 20 years ago, threw him into the PSD knowing that not many clubs could afford his large contract.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Possible Fisher replacement/upgrade?

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.