We should look to drive a reasonably hard bargain on players leaving the club without being over the top (eg Dodoro). We don’t want to become a club no one wants to trade with due to being difficult but also we don’t want to be seen as pushovers. Get just compensation for players departing. Easier said than done given everyone has a different view on what is just and fair.

On Dow, I’d like to keep him as good midfield depth, but I expect him to go for greater opportunities. If the saints are offering him 3 years (which seems to be the rumour doing the rounds), then it makes sense for him to go for the better job security and also greater likelihood of breaking into the senior midfield. Given he’s out of contract, I’m not sure we’ll be able to get much for him but we certainly should be targeting a third rounder at least.

On Fisher, this is where I would drive the harder bargain, despite my view than Dow is probably the better player. He’s got two years remaining on his contract with us. North are apparently offering him 5 years on better coin than he’s got with us. North have been handed all these assistance package picks and their own picks are more valuable than others given they’re perennially bottom 4. Should be setting our sights at least on their second rounder, even if we have to give them back late picks. We should be getting a pick that can be used as a strong centrepiece in any deal for E Hollands if that eventuates.

Thats the thing. Why is E Hollands worth a second rounder if we are rating Dow and Fisher as 3rd's?

Yes E Hollands is younger and has upside. He hasnt performed for Gold Coast and could not get games there.

Dow and Fisher only got games due to injuries because we have stronger players in those positions. They have runs on the board.

I personally think we will regret getting rid of Dow. He was up and down as he comes in for a game or two and is dropped immediately.

I mean he was playing well in big games at seasons end and then just gets dropped for finals for what seemingly is nothing other than he is not valued by our coaching staff.

While I'd prefer to keep him as midfield depth, I think if Dow to be a best 22 player then he needs to look elsewhere. I reckon he'll have a serviceable career at another club.

Fisher I can honestly say I won't miss.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Hollands is 21. Fisher 25 and Dow 24 next month. Hollands has had 3 years in the system. The first year he was recovering from an ACL.
I'd compare him more with Brodie Kemp. Look at the year of growth Brodie had this year. Hollands is 12 months younger. Remember a lot of these young kids are trying to do rehab and develop their footy in the middle of COVID impacted seasons.

Don't get frustrated on the numbers. Player X went for this pick so player Y must be worth more.
Look at the nett gain and/or loss. If we can off load 2 fringe players who have been in system 6+ years and can't get a regular spot for a 21Y/O first round pick with far more scope for development, I'd jump at it. Plus we're offloading a bit of TPP.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think what BV is trying to say Drewgirl is that Elijah Hollands hasn't had enough opportunity to show how bad he could be whilst the others have.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

At what point do we need to start factoring how many points we'll need to match bids for the Campo boys next year. Do we look at trading Fish and Dow for picks next year to get points and then potentially look at trading next years first for a pick in this years draft? Or, do we focus on this year solely and worry about next years draft in 12 months time?

Cruel but Fair. You have a way with BV's words.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I agree that you dont always get true value.

But i dont like how we pay overs in general and just let players go. Robinson, Garlett, Betts, Setterfield, Stocker etc etc.

Shoe on the other foot, we would have given up 2nd round picks for all these players.

But i understand what you guys are saying........

We need to add key pieces to this list to take the next step. We really need a medium smart zippy forward in my opinion.

Yep, only one I'd like to see stay is Dow. Considering Vossy obviously doesn't rate him, I'm happy to back his judgement on Dow too.

Who on our list honestly could've replaced him in those games with his attributes (speed, agility and clearances)?

The more important part is our "best 22" were lucky to win against Melbourne and got flogged by Brisbane with leg speed a major contributor.
Just because Voss and co prefer a more defensive mindset to the "best 22" doesn't mean it will solely win us a flag as proven in the finals.
If we want to nullify the speed of teams like Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS and Melbourne to an extent we need to add more speed, instead we are getting rid of it.
That is my point.

If you were Silvagni at Saints, would you offer a 2nd round pick for an uncontracted Dow?

If your answer is “no”, then you’ve answered the question as to his worth and demands for higher picks for him don’t hold much weight.

The only way we get a better than 3rd round for Dow is if Sydney are serious and Saints need to offer more to get him.

It’s the market and we don’t hold any leverage. That’s why we were trying to offload him last year when we had leverage of another year on his contract.

Fisher is another story. If Norf have made him a 5 year offer on good coin then it’s incumbent on them to do the deal. Otherwise they will get a reputation of not following through and no players will want to go there. We can afford to be a bit firmer there.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

For all of Silvagni's flaws one thing you can never say is that he was poor at negotiating at the trade table.
Austin will get owned on any dealings with Silvagni even if the trade is a no brainer in our favour.
I also agree we have no leverage but paying them to take Dow to move up 8 spots is a tad ridiculous IMO if true.
And paying the Suns pick #31 as suggested for Hollands is equally ridiculous if they don't send a pick back with him.
Just my opinion on it all.

Where has this paying a club to take Dow rumor come from? He's uncontracted?

Reckon we ask for 32 for Dow but probably end up with 51. Looking at North's picks, it might be pick 40 given they have nothing between 19 and 40 and they won't giving up 19 for Fisher.

GC will ask for 16 for Hollands which we'll buck at. They need points, so maybe 40 and 51 get it done. Equivalent to pick 28 points wise. Too much? Maybe we haggle pick 57 or 60 back. Makes Hollands equivalent to pick 36ish. Probably about right

Give up Dow and Fisher. Get Hollands and pick 60. I could live with that given it seems they're going no matter what. Get something out of a no win situation

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

There was a rumour posted on here somewhere that the Kangas were going to give us pick #39 for Fisher and we were going to give that pick and Dow for pick #31.
And there were also suggestions of us most likely giving that pick to the Suns for Hollands.
IIRC (can't be bothered to try and find the posts).

More likely they'll ask for our 2024 first. They aren't after early picks this year. They'll hit the draft or trade market hard next year.
We're the opposite.
I'd suggest they'll request our 2024 first for Hollands and perhaps a late pick.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/04/ ... or-oliver/




Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

So ostensibly….

it’s 7 years for 7 years…but what are the yearly
rates…?

isn’t Oliver on more splash…?


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!