List Management 2023

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6321

carntheblues wrote:

keogh wrote:

Like his twin brother is way too soft
His kicking is crap
He needs to improve his ruck craft
Very overrated
But has the potential
I firmly believe many players lose their edge when given monster contracts
Amazing when their contract is coming to the end and they pull their finger out
Come on down Mitch McGovern.

Agree his kicking could be better
Only needs to improve his ruck craft if Voss wants him to play ruck.
Overrated - disagree and clearly the people inside the club agree with me.
Has potential and has shown plenty.
Mind game nuff nuff statement - :eek:

Yes and the other day I went outside and it started raining. Clearly then I can influence the weather!
The fact McG is staying fit and on the park clearly has had no impact on his form? It all relates to his contract. :screwy:

Clearly you have forgotten his first year 2019 when he was “managed” when in actual fact he was overweight and not fit enough to play AFL
Does that jog your memory
2019 happened to be the first year of his 3.5 million approx 5 year deal

Crusader · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:00 pm

Blue Vain wrote:

sinbagger wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Crusader wrote:

Everyone on the wrong side of the Harry debate needs to pull their head out of their arse.

And here we have a perfect example.
You cannot have a debate about the value of a player. If you don't conform to the opinions of certain posters, you have your head up your arse.
The only contribution to the discussion is attempting to denigrate anyone with an alternate view. How insightful.
And people wonder why I get agitated.

Yeah, I think Crusader was taking the piss with this post (you know, joking), and you may have slightly over reacted….

And yes Duke, this was obvious to even my sense of humour…..

Yes, of course. Here's his previous meaningful contribution to the conversation. A bit more humour, hey?
Thanks for the insight.

Crusader wrote:

Get rid of the dominant CHF because it’s just easier to finish last all the time.

Take the high draft picks & circle jerk to the ‘upside’.

:roll:

It’s been too long for some of you. You’ve forgotten how to get to the top of the hill and stay there.

It’s ok. We’ll get you there.

GWS · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:01 pm

Blue Vain wrote:

Ain't that the truth. :lol:

Let's hope we're all celebrating a win tomorrow night and Harry kicks 5.12

EFA

murraycray · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:07 pm

Dunno where Harry lives, but you'd think there'd be a footy ground somewhere nearby.
So during his time off, maybe grab Ben and a footy and head off to practice goalkicking.
Ben being a fullback practices his kick outs back to Harry. Brotherly love and all that.

Simples. :smoking:

camel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:54 pm

GWS wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Ain't that the truth. :lol:

Let's hope we're all celebrating a win tomorrow night and Harry kicks 5.12

EFA

7 goals is a pretty good haul!

bender · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:22 pm

bondiblue wrote:

bender wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

Whilst we are achieving what we ARE achieving and paying whatever it is for our best 23, and can afford to carry (injured or just out of best 23)

Williams 800K,
Plowman 600K? (back ended) maybe more,
Ed 400K (half counted for as a rookie),
Silvagni 400K,

That's $1.9M injured or coming back from injury.

WE are doing real good with Harry & the Blue Brethren that runs on the Gabba.

on a serious question, could we trade williams and part pay his salary? we have boyd, hollands, binns who are cheaper and less injury prone

would there be any takers for him?

First of all I ask why?

What I am trying to point out is we can afford to carry rehabilitating players on our list and still target some great players to continue to improve.

We don't need to trade Williams.

Williams is a better player than Boyd Hollands and Binns by a long stretch. Williams is a Best 22 player.

Only player of the above who could relieve Williams from backline to midfield or even HF is Boyd, and there will come a day Boyd will cement himself in the team, like he's done before.

Williams is running freely right now, and will be ready to play for the reigning Premiers next year.

Lets watch Boyd Binns and Hollands continue to develop and when they surpass Williams, it will probably be close to the end of his contract.

Maybe Austin can look at his options from a stronger position end of next year. Pretty hard to trade a player coming back from an ACL.

fair call, i was just thinking salary cap wise

bender · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:32 pm

Crusader wrote:

keogh wrote:

Like his twin brother is way too soft
His kicking is crap
He needs to improve his ruck craft
Very overrated
But has the potential
I firmly believe many players lose their edge when given monster contracts
Amazing when their contract is coming to the end and they pull their finger out
Come on down Mitch McGovern.

Both brothers are a wee bit shaky between the ears. Ben was convinced he wasn’t good enough as a junior & almost walked away from the game before he started.

Harry’s meticulous preparation from week to week is enough, for me at least, to see these kicking yips as fixable.

well, he wants to play for Essendon*, so clearly he is not good enough for afl. or he really is shaky between the ears....

bender · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:34 pm

GWS wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Ain't that the truth. :lol:

Let's hope we're all celebrating a win tomorrow night and Harry kicks 5.12

EFA

that is wonderful!!!!

carntheblues · **Joined:** Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm **Posts:** 2698

keogh wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

keogh wrote:

Like his twin brother is way too soft
His kicking is crap
He needs to improve his ruck craft
Very overrated
But has the potential
I firmly believe many players lose their edge when given monster contracts
Amazing when their contract is coming to the end and they pull their finger out
Come on down Mitch McGovern.

Agree his kicking could be better
Only needs to improve his ruck craft if Voss wants him to play ruck.
Overrated - disagree and clearly the people inside the club agree with me.
Has potential and has shown plenty.
Mind game nuff nuff statement - :eek:

Yes and the other day I went outside and it started raining. Clearly then I can influence the weather!
The fact McG is staying fit and on the park clearly has had no impact on his form? It all relates to his contract. :screwy:

Clearly you have forgotten his first year 2019 when he was “managed” when in actual fact he was overweight and not fit enough to play AFL
Does that jog your memory
2019 happened to be the first year of his 3.5 million approx 5 year deal

well if you want to live in the past permanently, be my guest. I like living in the present.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6321

Just proving my point with evidence
Love the deflection mate even when your wrong
The same thing has happened to McKay
No doubt some players lose their edge when there handed multi million dollar contracts

But let’s talk futures if you want
Let’s hope McKay has a blinder today
Go Blues

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 4910

Just think that this time last year we didn't have any wingers but now we have two good ones in Acres and Hollands.
Furthermore DeKoning and Kemp have shown they have what it takes to become quality AFL players.
Zac Williams will be a handy addition to the side next year and I'm looking forward to watching the development of Binns and Cowan.
It was good to see Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Cunningham show some durability in the second half of the season and hopefully this continues next year and beyond.

tap in 79 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am **Posts:** 2129

What happens with Paddy Dow?

Clearly he is as good as Kennedy as a back-up midfielder and maybe he could be developed as a half-forward flanker more effective in tackling than say Fogarty. Fogarty's one wood is his tackling. Well, Dow is a reasonably good tackler. I don't think you leave Fogarty in the team just for his tackling.

There needs to be more competition - not less - amongst the fringe players and Dow challenges Kennedy for his spot in the midfield and could challenge as a half-forward flanker as well.

Hope they keep him. He showed some good development this year, but maybe they see something I don't.

Dow - clearance rate - above average - 4.2, tackles 2.5 below average.
Kennedy - clearance rate - average - 3.1, tackles 3.0 average.
Fogarty - tackles - elite 4.8, goals - below average 0.3

Dow offers flexibility...or perhaps his hard yards have already defined him? Maybe the guys at Carlton see this more clearly than me.

I hope to see further development in Cunningham, de Koening and McGovern (what is his best position?) in 2024.

Pittonet needs to improve his marking, consistency & possession count as well.

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 6902

We desperately need to upgrade one of owies and motlop for a classy, fast & creative crumbing forward.

need more pace and polish. starting the 4th qtr in the prelim with kennedy, cripps and hewitt in the middle is too slow, and brisbane were spreading and surging with ease. we looked much better a little into the qtr with walsh, cerra and cripps there.

i don't like our balance with two starting rucks and two starting full-forwards. the games we lost this year it really stood out how slow we were. we want to play slow and contested and kick long to packs and hope one of the big boys mark it. it's not a winning formula imo

when we played fast and were mobile and ran and carried, we were at our best and can match it with any team in the afl. i think our defense and commitment are spot on; we need to add some attacking and dare and polish to what we have and we're top 2 material.

lots for the MC, and coaches and list guys to think about. bcos if we stand pat and go into next season relying on contested possession and slow play down the lines, i feel like we'll struggle to make the 8.

sinbagger · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:25 am

I think the problem is that Curnow and Mackay don’t compete strongly enough, which means our small forwards do t have a chance to get into the game. Opposition defenders too easily dominate Mackay and Curnow, control the ball and sweep it away too easily.

Hopefully this is just a maturity thing for Mackay and Curnow. It took Daniher and Riewoldt a long time to learn this and become more team oriented.

aboynamedsue · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm **Posts:** 6047

I hope Dow stays. He means more to us than we would get for him in a trade (which would be nothing, see Setterfield trade).

If we straight out delist him, I will spew. He will be picked up as a DFA and we get no return (see Stocker). I hope we can convince Dow to stay for another year or two on the same coin. I might have a different perspective if another club is willing to trade something of value, but I just don’t see that happening. I think the most likely scenario is that another club is already in his ear (Saints?) and he’ll request a trade in the coming weeks. And we’ll do the “help the player get to his club of choice” good guy thing (again, see Setterfield).

I wouldn’t blame Dow if he wants to look at other options - he doesn’t want to spend his prime years in the VFL - but I hope we’re telling him that he has turned a corner and that we’ll be going into 2024 with a genuinely open mind about spots. If he has a big preseason, it’s not unfathomable that he could overtake Hewitt & Kennedy (both of whom I like, but we need AFL-caliber players putting pressure on them). Ed Curnow has retired. Our midfield ‘squad’ takes a hit if Dow leaves. Our game is based on clearances and that’s his strength.

bluechampion · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm **Posts:** 3441

Cook basicaly said we'd do what we did last year - pick up two or three good kids and look to bring in one senior player via trade or free agency.

Mickstar · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 7171

aboynamedsue wrote:

I hope Dow stays. He means more to us than we would get for him in a trade (which would be nothing, see Setterfield trade).

If we straight out delist him, I will spew. He will be picked up as a DFA and we get no return (see Stocker). I hope we can convince Dow to stay for another year or two on the same coin. I might have a different perspective if another club is willing to trade something of value, but I just don’t see that happening. I think the most likely scenario is that another club is already in his ear (Saints?) and he’ll request a trade in the coming weeks. And we’ll do the “help the player get to his club of choice” good guy thing (again, see Setterfield).

I wouldn’t blame Dow if he wants to look at other options - he doesn’t want to spend his prime years in the VFL - but I hope we’re telling him that he has turned a corner and that we’ll be going into 2024 with a genuinely open mind about spots. If he has a big preseason, it’s not unfathomable that he could overtake Hewitt & Kennedy (both of whom I like, but we need AFL-caliber players putting pressure on them). Ed Curnow has retired. Our midfield ‘squad’ takes a hit if Dow leaves. Our game is based on clearances and that’s his strength.

Always good stuff " Sue ". Agree with everything you say . And i will add Cripps and Hewitt are into the twighlight of there careers . We have a very good replacement under our nose in Dow . I would be down on my knees asking Paddy to give us one more year . Onball , train him up as a half forward flanker , anything . Paddy has got far more talent than plenty on our list .
Keep the good stuff coming ABNS . Always calm and rational . How the faaark do you stay so calm ?

GreatEx · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:31 pm

Agree we need to keep Dow: although he needs to sharpen up his F50 entries significantly if he wants to be a consistent first 22 inclusion, letting him go would mean we need to recruit two pacy mids instead of one.

I still reckon an extra mid sized athletic forward in the Martin vein is more important than another crumbing small. I still believe C Durdin has what it takes, his season was just stuffed by injury. He and Williams will be big additions in 24. Hopefully Binns, too. Our own version of a Bailey Fritsch that doesn't choke in finals would add a much needed shot of variety to our forward play.

aboynamedsue · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm **Posts:** 6047

Mickstar wrote:

aboynamedsue wrote:

I hope Dow stays. He means more to us than we would get for him in a trade (which would be nothing, see Setterfield trade).

If we straight out delist him, I will spew. He will be picked up as a DFA and we get no return (see Stocker). I hope we can convince Dow to stay for another year or two on the same coin. I might have a different perspective if another club is willing to trade something of value, but I just don’t see that happening. I think the most likely scenario is that another club is already in his ear (Saints?) and he’ll request a trade in the coming weeks. And we’ll do the “help the player get to his club of choice” good guy thing (again, see Setterfield).

I wouldn’t blame Dow if he wants to look at other options - he doesn’t want to spend his prime years in the VFL - but I hope we’re telling him that he has turned a corner and that we’ll be going into 2024 with a genuinely open mind about spots. If he has a big preseason, it’s not unfathomable that he could overtake Hewitt & Kennedy (both of whom I like, but we need AFL-caliber players putting pressure on them). Ed Curnow has retired. Our midfield ‘squad’ takes a hit if Dow leaves. Our game is based on clearances and that’s his strength.

Always good stuff " Sue ". Agree with everything you say . And i will add Cripps and Hewitt are into the twighlight of there careers . We have a very good replacement under our nose in Dow . I would be down on my knees asking Paddy to give us one more year . Onball , train him up as a half forward flanker , anything . Paddy has got far more talent than plenty on our list .
Keep the good stuff coming ABNS . Always calm and rational . How the faaark do you stay so calm ?

Haha, thanks Mick - I’m not always rational on game day :smile:

If Dow goes, who is pushing from underneath for that inside mid spot? I don’t see Carroll making it to be honest. Unless Austin can pull a rabbit out of his hat, our squad profile is impacted next year by losing mature bodies in Dow & Ed Curnow.

As you say, the end may be closer for Cripps than we care to admit. I’m not saying he’s finished right now or anything like that, but we know the end comes quickly for some players and it wouldn’t surprise me if that happens with Cripps. 29 next year and his body has been smashed for a decade.

jezzarules · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm **Posts:** 5836

GreatEx wrote:

Agree we need to keep Dow: although he needs to sharpen up his F50 entries significantly if he wants to be a consistent first 22 inclusion, letting him go would mean we need to recruit two pacy mids instead of one.

I still reckon an extra mid sized athletic forward in the Martin vein is more important than another crumbing small. I still believe C Durdin has what it takes, his season was just stuffed by injury. He and Williams will be big additions in 24. Hopefully Binns, too. Our own version of a Bailey Fritsch that doesn't choke in finals would add a much needed shot of variety to our forward play.

Elijah Hollands could be a suitable replacement for Dow because he has more of a mid-forward bias.
IE gives us similar level of coverage but perhaps more where we need it.
Might not be too different in trade value either.

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