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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
the Umpires team is in :
Nicholls, Broadbent, Findlay and Mollison

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:53 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
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Braithy wrote:
harry failed bcos there were countless times he didn't put his body in the way, wasn't prepared to pay the physical price to compete, and other times he stopped, hands on hips and let the play run past him.


he's main knock since coming into the league is he's a conditional player. he chooses when to put his body on the line, on his terms. and that he's soft and weak in challenges/ goes to ground to easily etc.


all fair criticism.


He’s main knock…..? Coming from who?

Soft and weak?

Facts suggest he has some areas of improvement where he rates as average and others where he is above or elite. However, suggesting he’s soft and weak in challenges……you might want to reflect on that. Personally, I’ve seen him take contested marks with guys all over him AND I’ve seen him chase down players with a tackle.

It hasn’t been his best year…..regardless, soft and weak as fair criticism……sheeesh


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
I really want Fogarty to be selected. So important when we don't have the ball.

I rate Cunners but if it's a choice of the 2 my preference is Fogarty


Same. Fogarty is tougher and has been very effective when going into the middle.

He plays as a proper rover at the forward half stoppages.

Take away Swans rebound, take away the game.


Agree


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:19 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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The 2 best pressure teams of the past 5 games. We'll need to bring it because that is the Swans strength.
If we can match them for 4 quarters with our pressure, we'll have the advantage IMHO. Use Hewett to reduce Warners impact and we should keep clearance dominance hopefully.
Papley, Gulden and the Lizard are the other areas we'll need to neutralise. Hopefully the weather reduces the strengths of their tall forwards over our mid size defenders.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:38 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
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Blue Vain wrote:
The 2 best pressure teams of the past 5 games. We'll need to bring it because that is the Swans strength.
If we can match them for 4 quarters with our pressure, we'll have the advantage IMHO. Use Hewett to reduce Warners impact and we should keep clearance dominance hopefully.
Papley, Gulden and the Lizard are the other areas we'll need to neutralise. Hopefully the weather reduces the strengths of their tall forwards over our mid size defenders.


agree BV and id throw in Heeny for good measure


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Interacting with Effes re weather and this is what I said

Quote:
I'm in Sydney and I can only look at the maps (isometric, high level air temps....) to come to my conclusion.

I have a feel that the main dump of 4mm Thurs (which was 10mm a couple days ago) and 8mm for Friday is going to happen over night and maybe up to midday. With a couple sporadic light showers during the early arvo (which most may miss the MCG), and settling to drier conditions after 4-5pm. The light sth westers doing their bit to dry the ground.


I think I might be right. its looking that way.

With 8mm expected as the maximum total for the 24 hours of Friday, it doesn't sound too wet to me. It's going to be a mild breeze blowing and despite the min temp expected to be 8 degrees its going to feel less than 5 degrees, so double up your sox, and liners and something to keep the wind out.

Boys shouldn't find it difficult to mark and handle the ball, especially if the showers finish about 5-6 and ground dries up the next 2 hours.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:19 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Location: Melbourne
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

Have they got us covered? Nope.



you're gonna sound silly if the swans gets us ... borderline obnoxious even.



thing is, swans are a known finals commodity and will come to play and they will deliver a physically hard at it and well drilled brand of footy, friday night. longmire will make sure of it.


same cannot be said of us. what the occasion does to us ... if we go back and pick the side based on the early season "favourites" rather than balance (which was the primary source of the sack voss vibes - picking the same players who underperform and underwhelm) and we steer too far away from the team which won 9 on the trot, i feel like we won't just lose, we will be picked apart.

there was a radical physical and mental shift in our play mid season, but there was also having the right balance out there. fast, swarming pressure played by smaller more mobile players.

talk of 2 rucks, 2 big forwards, marchbank as 7th defender (when swans have damaging small/mid forwards than talls etc is starting to sound like that horrible stop-start play, slow build up zero handball chains which got us to bottom four.


if that happens, it makes our win streak look almost accidental - bcos voss and the MC would never have dynamically thought to shift the magnets around and go more swarming & mobile.


Well said


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: seaside
Goodness….

i’m excited…i’m nervous…i’m hungry…it’s
all happening…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21400
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Its not just one post BV.
Hence why I asked the question but didn't respond to. You may have missed it.

Its the culmination of a lot of posts over the last week whilst I was away just reading gives the impression you don't want Harry.
So many stats presented to "prove" Harry is useless, telling us what he doesn't do, and he doesn't care, gets in Charlies way, doesn't have the heart, and so on.
Don't be offended. Its an assumption from my part. But, its a picture you draw with words.


You're in battle mode for the game obviously. :lol:
That's just more of the same.
I haven't said Harry doesn't care. I haven't said Harry is useless and I don't provide stats with an intention to prove it.
Harry cares. The torment he went through earlier in the season proves he cares a lot.
I said he can jump because he jumps all over Charlie. In context of stating he should be able to jump at the centre bounce as well. I can provide instances if you want of him jumping into and cleaning up Charlie on numerous occasions.

The stats I present are not intended to "prove Harry is useless". They are stats to add context to other selective Stats provided. Posters are telling us how many games we win with Harry in the team. They don't tell us how many we win without him.
They tell us Charlie kicks goals because Harry is getting his marks outside 50. They don't tell us Charlie gets more marks outside 50 than Harry.
They tell us Harry takes more marks down the line than anyone in the game. The reality is Max Gawn takes the most marks between the arcs. Do you know who is 2nd in the AFL? Charlie Curnow.
So read the context.
Nothing annoys me more than posters misrepresenting me. The theory that posters have some form of hate for players when they question their current value is nonsense. I would have thought you'd be the first to recognise that with your recent LOB exchanges.
I don't have any hate for Harry. He frustrates the hell out of me but I've stated numerous times that nothing would make me happier than to see him contribute significantly to our finals run.


Charlie 23 games 165 Marks 70 I50 59 CM 37 MOL 7 IM
Harry 19 games 130 Marks 49 I50 40 CM 40 MOL 2 IM
Gawn 20 games 91 Marks 14 I50 44CM 7 MOL 28 IM

Im only going by what I heard - but based on these stats Gawn not even close - Takes a lot of intercept marks though maybe they are between the arcs

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

Obnoxious? There's 2 sides playing. When comparing the 2 teams game plan and personnel they both have strengths. You seem to look at the oppositions strengths, ignore ours and you shit yourself. We have too many strengths over them to lose. We will not go into the game half hearted, and did I mention both losses against Swans THIS year were in Sydney and this week its at the G with 65,000 Carlton supporters to motivate them as the 24th man.

Now what do you think?



obnoxious is saying we have them covered when we clearly don't and we haven't had them covered in many years, as our W/L record indicates.

they're the number one getting turnover team and the number one scoring from turnover team in the entire AFL; and we're the 15th ranked scoring from turnover team. and the 3rd highest giving up turnovers.

therefore if we turn it over, we will be eaten alive.

our strength is the contest. and the wet will help that, but more than the wet will be picking a team top heavy with pressure players - like we were forced to thru injury this season.


lol i'm not shitting myself, just like you're not fooling anyone with your loud bravado act that we just have to turn up and we'll smoke them.


fact is we played two seasons this year. one was slow, poor execution and very lacking of fundamental skills; the other was high pressure and fast.

can we play high pressure enough to the beat the ducks, if we pick a big, lumbering team that takes away from our run and carry? i can't wait to find out.


pies went big for tonight, when i wouldn't have ... lets see how they get on.


Look at the teams tonight and look at the key personnel missing from Swans GF team:

FF Franklin
CHF Reid
FB McCartin

Its not bravado. Its a different year and a different segment of the season.
I make more money in friendly bets with carlton fans than any other.
Its not bravado. Do you want to make a friendly bet on the game?

I never said we just have to turn up and we will smoke them. Never.
I gave you facts why we will win, you should have kept them in your quote to refer to.
Our style of play is different to what was displayed earlier in the season =which I described as "stop-start".
I said if we bring our contested game, our brand, and we will because of the 24th player and the hurt from missing last year etc we will win.

Come on braithy, I'm just trying to give you reasons why will win, coz you do not have as much faith in the new Carlton of the last 10 weeks as I do. The past is the past.

Just because we pick 2 rucks or Pitto over SOS you define us as lumbering. That's not the case. WE still have running machines all over the park, more than Swans do, and I pointed them out. The only lumbering player is Pitto, and you think with the addition of Pitto we are lumbering. One player out of 23 makes that much difference? Get a grip. We stopped playing the stop start game and started contesting and connecting and played Selfless footy. That hasnt gone anywhere. We have momentum and know what works for us. I have complete faiuth and trust in this group. You don't. Not trying to fool anyone.

Do you really think we wont turn up? Does anyone?

We will turn the tables on the Swans and I will look forward put the Pluck a Duck poster outside my house this arvo.

Obnoxious. Loud Bravado. Fooling people. Geez I thought you liked me only a couple weeks ago. You're sound really sour with me. oh well. You'll smile tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:46 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I think we have this. As others, bring our contested game, the pressure & accountability and we advance.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2741
bondiblue wrote:
I reckon

McGovern Weitering Newman
Cincotta Kemp Saad
Acres Cripps Hollands
Cottrell McKay Owies
Martin Curnow Motlop
Pittonet Hewett Walsh
TDK Cerra Marchbank Docherty (Dow)

Fogarty Cuningham Kennedy Fisher

I would have Cuningham ahead of Dow as sub, both have pace, but Dow may get the sympathy nod (based on good form on a weekly basis)


Does Voss strike you as a sympathy nod kind of guy??
Also, for those commenting on Voss’ remark about not taking the weather into account, I am pretty sure he is messaging to the players that we don’t care what the conditions are or where we play or who we play - no excuses!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:55 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Posts: 8944
Location: Melbourne
I think we are going to come out breathing fire. You rarely see a rebuilt team so far down the path of development before making a final. We're a couple of years overdue IMO. We know our best is as good as anyone when we bring the heat, and I can't see us not bringing the heat.

We're the best stoppage team in the league and Sydney are one of the worst. Finals = more stoppages and less uncontested ball. Get numbers around the ball and make it a stoppage fest and we'll get the ball in our half. Bring the pressure when they get the ball and don't allow coast to coast goals, and we win comfortably.

If both teams turn up to play, we will smoke them

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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london blue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
harry failed bcos there were countless times he didn't put his body in the way, wasn't prepared to pay the physical price to compete, and other times he stopped, hands on hips and let the play run past him.


he's main knock since coming into the league is he's a conditional player. he chooses when to put his body on the line, on his terms. and that he's soft and weak in challenges/ goes to ground to easily etc.


all fair criticism.


He’s main knock…..? Coming from who?

Soft and weak?

Facts suggest he has some areas of improvement where he rates as average and others where he is above or elite. However, suggesting he’s soft and weak in challenges……you might want to reflect on that. Personally, I’ve seen him take contested marks with guys all over him AND I’ve seen him chase down players with a tackle.

It hasn’t been his best year…..regardless, soft and weak as fair criticism……sheeesh


he goes to ground and loses his feet too easily, when the heat goes on the game he's found wanting etc - same as his brother. and then at times like you said, he physically dominates the pack and goes with the flight.

i guess that's the thing about harry. the space between his best and his worst is substantial. and it's often reflective on if we win or not.

bad harry shows up, our winning percentage isn't good.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1170
God I'm nervous. The Swans finals experience worries me. The pressure, the expectations from all us success starved fans, I hope the boys can handle it. We have to hit the ground running, the Swans will try to bury us in the first quarter. If we are with them at quarter time I reckon we'll win. Do it boys, I'm not getting any younger. My youngest (11yo) grandson has just about been living in his Carlton jumper since we saw them beat Melbourne. Do it for the next generation who have never known Carlton as a power club.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:03 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Location: Melbourne
Kennedy didn't train this morning? I guess he's not playing...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

Obnoxious? There's 2 sides playing. When comparing the 2 teams game plan and personnel they both have strengths. You seem to look at the oppositions strengths, ignore ours and you shit yourself. We have too many strengths over them to lose. We will not go into the game half hearted, and did I mention both losses against Swans THIS year were in Sydney and this week its at the G with 65,000 Carlton supporters to motivate them as the 24th man.

Now what do you think?



obnoxious is saying we have them covered when we clearly don't and we haven't had them covered in many years, as our W/L record indicates.

they're the number one getting turnover team and the number one scoring from turnover team in the entire AFL; and we're the 15th ranked scoring from turnover team. and the 3rd highest giving up turnovers.

therefore if we turn it over, we will be eaten alive.

our strength is the contest. and the wet will help that, but more than the wet will be picking a team top heavy with pressure players - like we were forced to thru injury this season.


lol i'm not shitting myself, just like you're not fooling anyone with your loud bravado act that we just have to turn up and we'll smoke them.


fact is we played two seasons this year. one was slow, poor execution and very lacking of fundamental skills; the other was high pressure and fast.

can we play high pressure enough to the beat the ducks, if we pick a big, lumbering team that takes away from our run and carry? i can't wait to find out.


pies went big for tonight, when i wouldn't have ... lets see how they get on.


Look at the teams tonight and look at the key personnel missing from Swans GF team:

FF Franklin
CHF Reid
FB McCartin

Its not bravado. Its a different year and a different segment of the season.
I make more money in friendly bets with carlton fans than any other.
Its not bravado. Do you want to make a friendly bet on the game?

I never said we just have to turn up and we will smoke them. Never.
I gave you facts why we will win, you should have kept them in your quote to refer to.
Our style of play is different to what was displayed earlier in the season =which I described as "stop-start".
I said if we bring our contested game, our brand, and we will because of the 24th player and the hurt from missing last year etc we will win.

Come on braithy, I'm just trying to give you reasons why will win, coz you do not have as much faith in the new Carlton of the last 10 weeks as I do. The past is the past.

Just because we pick 2 rucks or Pitto over SOS you define us as lumbering. That's not the case. WE still have running machines all over the park, more than Swans do, and I pointed them out. The only lumbering player is Pitto, and you think with the addition of Pitto we are lumbering. One player out of 23 makes that much difference? Get a grip. We stopped playing the stop start game and started contesting and connecting and played Selfless footy. That hasnt gone anywhere. We have momentum and know what works for us. I have complete faiuth and trust in this group. You don't. Not trying to fool anyone.

Do you really think we wont turn up? Does anyone?

We will turn the tables on the Swans and I will look forward put the Pluck a Duck poster outside my house this arvo.

Obnoxious. Loud Bravado. Fooling people. Geez I thought you liked me only a couple weeks ago. You're sound really sour with me. oh well. You'll smile tomorrow.



lol ... just bcos i don't agree with much of what you say doesn't mean i don't like you. it's not personal.



the highlighted bit: we went back to our shells Vs Giants and lost handily.



i don't know if we'll turn up. rookie coach for the finals with a rookie finals team. no one really knows if the occasion will be too much. no one knows if all those narrow losses in front of big crowds primed us for finals footy.

we will find out. if we have just one player under 100%, that will be enough to lose to the swans who will be hunting us.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:06 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Kaloyasena
Bookie wrote:
the Umpires team is in :
Nicholls, Broadbent, Findlay and Mollison



Thankfully “The Cheat” has been allocated to another game.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:07 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10477
cortez wrote:
God I'm nervous. The Swans finals experience worries me. The pressure, the expectations from all us success starved fans, I hope the boys can handle it. We have to hit the ground running, the Swans will try to bury us in the first quarter. If we are with them at quarter time I reckon we'll win. Do it boys, I'm not getting any younger. My youngest (11yo) grandson has just about been living in his Carlton jumper since we saw them beat Melbourne. Do it for the next generation who have never known Carlton as a power club.


Going to the game with my son, who is 22. Yep, definitely getting old. He like many of that age, doesn't know what a final is.
Can't wait to enjoy the night with a WIN. God Damit it just has to be. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:08 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10477
AGRO wrote:
Bookie wrote:
the Umpires team is in :
Nicholls, Broadbent, Findlay and Mollison



Thankfully “The Cheat” has been allocated to another game.


Beat me to it. :thumbsup:


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