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jake_h03
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:49 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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FarmerBlue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I’m pretty sure PommyinOz stated that we’ve won every match this year when Pitto & TDK have both played.
Did he say this and if so, is it true??


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Lost 7 when only 1 played

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Difference was McKay was missing as was Jack.

The key point is we have gone in with THREE talls (Ruck/Fwd) when we have won. Bringing in Pittonet then means we have FOUR with TDK Charlie & McKay and it hasn't worked. The loss of another runner really hurts our balance and pressure

TDK played 81% on the weekend and looked good. It's his most effective role. Surely McKay, Cripps, Kennedy? maybe Weitering Kemp & McGovern in defence can cover the other 15-20%? Maybe not even have one?

I understand the option of Pittonet as it will help one area but IMO it really changes what has worked and takes away from our strength in the last 2 months

No finals side is carrying TWO genuine Ruckman and even Melb have gone away from Gawn/Grundy who are both excellent Rucks. They are now using Van Rooyen to fill the 20% and are playing better

Losing Jack has really hurt us


This is absolutely spot on Farmer. With Harry back we don't have room for one of the resting ruckman up forward, so they become a waste when they are not in the ruck.

The first 8 of our 9 game winning streak was with only 3 Charlie, Harry, TDK, Pitto. The Gold Coast win was the only one with all 4 and it was the worst of the wins.

Against GWS, TDK just racked up the numbers that TDK and Pitto usually have combined.
Gold Coast - TDK and Pitto combined for 16 touches, 33 hitouts, 1 mark, 7 clearances, 3 tackles.
GWS - TDK alone had 16 touches, 34 hitouts 2 marks, 6 clearances, 3 tackles.

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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:52 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Vain wrote:
Otherwise Docherty goes back into the defence rotation and Hollands stays wing at a half forwards expense.


With a full strength midfield I like this move. Docherty is star and makes our defence so much better. He can always go midfield later if needed

A defence of

B: Docherty Weitering McGovern
HB: Newman Kemp Saad

is almost unbeatable if w ehave midfield pressure

Hollands (although gets knocked off the ball a bit) workrate is amazing and he helps the defence as does Acres. His ball use is clever and he doesn't back down.
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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:06 am 
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Harry Vallence

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jake_h03 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I’m pretty sure PommyinOz stated that we’ve won every match this year when Pitto & TDK have both played.
Did he say this and if so, is it true??


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Lost 2 Crows Swans
Lost 7 when only 1 played

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Difference was McKay was missing as was Jack.

The key point is we have gone in with THREE talls (Ruck/Fwd) when we have won. Bringing in Pittonet then means we have FOUR with TDK Charlie & McKay and it hasn't worked. The loss of another runner really hurts our balance and pressure

TDK played 81% on the weekend and looked good. It's his most effective role. Surely McKay, Cripps, Kennedy? maybe Weitering Kemp & McGovern in defence can cover the other 15-20%? Maybe not even have one?

I understand the option of Pittonet as it will help one area but IMO it really changes what has worked and takes away from our strength in the last 2 months

No finals side is carrying TWO genuine Ruckman and even Melb have gone away from Gawn/Grundy who are both excellent Rucks. They are now using Van Rooyen to fill the 20% and are playing better

Losing Jack has really hurt us


This is absolutely spot on Farmer. With Harry back we don't have room for one of the resting ruckman up forward, so they become a waste when they are not in the ruck.

The first 8 of our 9 game winning streak was with only 3 Charlie, Harry, TDK, Pitto. The Gold Coast win was the only one with all 4 and it was the worst of the wins.

Against GWS, TDK just racked up the numbers that TDK and Pitto usually have combined.
Gold Coast - TDK and Pitto combined for 16 touches, 33 hitouts, 1 mark, 7 clearances, 3 tackles.
GWS - TDK alone had 16 touches, 34 hitouts 2 marks, 6 clearances, 3 tackles.


Yep. I like Harry as a 2nd ruck but I don't like we are only trailling it now. He needs time doing that role and getting used to it

The problem is Jack's fitness. If he plays it's a different story.

Perfect world we would go with TDK McKay Charlie & Jack as even though it's 4 it's much more mobile and Jack is very good defensively and kicks goals
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Its time to get the band together for Finals.

I expect Pitto- TDK is Vossy's preference (and mine during Finals) to be back as business as usual.

I was impressed to see Harry pushed into the ruck, to see what happens (like Vossy said). I don't want to see that again during Finals.

I want 2 KPF's: a CHF and a FF, all the time, and we have Harry and Charlie to do that. So do it!

I notice on footy forums and in conversation there's a real preference to get Boyd back over Fisher to play defense. I'm really disappointed Boyd wasn't given game time in the last 3 weeks, like [url]all[/url] the other players (including depth) have enjoyed. Fisher was never going to be a loose player in defense during Finals. It does not happen.

Kempy wasn't great, and have felt all along he's been playing well, but is still serving his apprenticeship (developing). Ive enjoyed watching marchbank improve by the week and looked good when he came back on.

Weiters will be free to play, maybe pay a fine.

I'm assuming Acres will be right to play.

Cripps - Dow
Docherty - Hollands
Pittonet - Fogarty
Boyd - Fisher
Motlop - Durdin
Marchbank - Kemp

If Acres doesn't get up in 2 weeks, Hollands is in the team.

Sub Kemp.
Emergency Dow Hollands Fogarty

Dow, Kemp and Hollands unlucky.



I couldn't disagree more about Dow & Kemp

Kemp has been very good and Dow has been so important the last 6-8 weeks. He add some run and dash that Cripps Heweet don't have. Allows us to use Walsh and/or Doc on a Wing or even forward

Midifeld dominance is the key. Cripps Hewett Cerra Walsh & Dow as our core is our stength

Marchbank has done nothing to earn a spot and his disposal is poor


I didnt say Kemp has been playing badly. I dont think he played well yesterday, whereas Marchbank didnt play well last week, but looked good yesterday.
I'm going with experience for the next Final. Both good players. In the end I don't mind either way. I will leave that to Vossy.

Just because you keep saying Marchbank hasn't earned a spot, Voss keeps selecting him. Must be something in that. Marchbank's kicking yesterday was fantastic. I don't know why you would say it was poor. Some of those long passes....wow. How many intercepts did Marchbank have in 37% game time? Was he really as bad as you say? Was Kempy better than Marchbank yesterday? Maybe I missed something.

Its going to be hard to fit in the squad of 30 who all (except Boyd) have seen a bit of game time in the last month.

It will be interesting to see where the 'undroppables' Dow and Fisher are picked to play, if they are. Dow was good. Fisher has been, well, a spare in defense. But he's a fan fave because of his stats.

At this stage, we are all right with our teams, till the teams are selected.


Boyd has played two full VFL games in the last month, so he’s not that underdone that he couldn’t be selected.


No he's not, but he's missed out on the opportunity the play AFL before Finals, which as we've seen with other players, they can all do with a game under their belt. Its a bit quicker in AFL. But I don't think he would struggle defending.

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Braithy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:56 am 
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Craig Bradley
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are we at the point where we start asking if we're a better team without Mckay? he can't ruck, struggles to kick goals. so many times he was in Charlie's little corridor where he wants the ball when harry did go forward.

hard to say bcos our midfield pressure was non-existent Vs giants. and when we had midfield pressure Vs Suns, we only narrowly won.

the eye test says the balance was better when harry was out.
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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:58 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:
are we at the point where we start asking if we're a better team without Mckay? he can't ruck, struggles to kick goals. so many times he was in Charlie's little corridor where he wants the ball when harry did go forward.

hard to say bcos our midfield pressure was non-existent Vs giants. and when we had midfield pressure Vs Suns, we only narrowly won.

the eye test says the balance was better when harry was out.


It’s a fair question. That’s why I want him to learn how to ruck
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:58 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jake_h03 wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
The brave move would be Pitto for Harry. Can't say Pitto's form in the last month makes me want to support it. If it was JSOS available I'd be calling for it. Durdin makes way instead.

Doc for Fish. Dow unfortunately makes way for Cripps on team balance.

If we'd been smart with our selections this week I'd have considered Boyd. Three weeks suspended, a month in the VFL and two weeks doing nothing, you can't play a final off that preparation.

Motlop or Dow sub depending on the conditions.


Motlop has to start. Our most dangerous small forward and has the most tackles inside 50 by some distance


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More than Owies?

I'd say Owies is our most consistently dangerous small forward, and if we only went with one small forward I'd pick Owies ahead of Motlop this year. Motlop is still developing and will be overtaking all before him in the next year or two imo.

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rhino27
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:02 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.
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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:04 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Owies and Motlop are very different players and both needed

It’s the combination of Owies Motlop Cottrell Fogarty Martin that makes us dangerous. All different and all can defend


Last edited by FarmerBlue on Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jake_h03
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:05 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
The brave move would be Pitto for Harry. Can't say Pitto's form in the last month makes me want to support it. If it was JSOS available I'd be calling for it. Durdin makes way instead.

Doc for Fish. Dow unfortunately makes way for Cripps on team balance.

If we'd been smart with our selections this week I'd have considered Boyd. Three weeks suspended, a month in the VFL and two weeks doing nothing, you can't play a final off that preparation.

Motlop or Dow sub depending on the conditions.


Motlop has to start. Our most dangerous small forward and has the most tackles inside 50 by some distance


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More than Owies?

I'd say Owies is our most consistently dangerous small forward, and if we only went with one small forward I'd pick Owies ahead of Motlop this year. Motlop is still developing and will be overtaking all before him in the next year or two imo.


Owies is more consistent, but I think Motlop is more dangerous, if that makes sense. I think Motlop is more likely to turn a game on its head, but he also can go missing. Owies you know what you’re going to get. Always good but never brilliant. Both are a lock in my best 22 ahead of Durdin, Cuningham, Fogarty


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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:05 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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ScottSaunders2 wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
I rate the views of many on here and a few said they thought Harry did okay.

I'm not one of them. I thought he was very average and each time he went into the ruck I thought we looked all at sea. I'm pretty sure the 3 quick goals to GWS in the 2nd were when Harry was in the ruck.

I prefer the Pitto/TDK rotation and leave Harry to give Charlie some support.

Fish doesn't do it for me. Yesterday's brain fades convinced me......It's a No from me
Kemp v Marchy. I'm going to stick with Kemp only because he is more of the future than Marchy and he had been part of the 9 game winning streak.

Ins - Pitto, Cripps, Doc, Mots,
Outs - Fish, Durds, Fog, Holland.

Holland or Marchbank sub.

I'm confident Acres will be right and Doc to the other wing.

Pretty much the same team as Crusaders but Dow in for Fog. I'd love Kennedy in the team for his grunt but his time out of the game worries me in a hot final.

Regards Cazzesman


100% ... i love what harry does, but he isnt a ruckmens asshole. i dont mind it when its up in the forward line, that makes sense, but not at the centre square. he was pants in that period. feel like we used this game to try a couple of things i.e. Harry in the ruck, Kemp up forward (prob forced due to injury) ... but we experimented a little i feel.

hollands is stiff ... real stiff ... he gives everything, and will be a 200 game player for us ... but ... at times, too easily pushed off the ball. super kid though. his endevour is fantastic.


Glad to read these 2 posts. Agree with both posts.
Harry in the ruck was a big fail. Huge fail and too risky in more ways than one. I don't believe anyone who thought he did well. I understand why they wanted to see it, but hope seeing him in the ruck now has quenched their thirst.

Kemp up forward was needed with Charlie on his own whist Harry was trying to be a ruckman.

Also, Kemp struggled a bit and I thought Marchbank looked better in the most recent game, but not the 2 prior. Toss a coin for Kemp/ Marchbank.

Hollands deserves his spot in the team as the incumbent, but if it means him or Doc or Acres or Cottrell I'd take all 3 before Hollands this year.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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rhino27 wrote:
Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.


Agree.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jake_h03 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
The brave move would be Pitto for Harry. Can't say Pitto's form in the last month makes me want to support it. If it was JSOS available I'd be calling for it. Durdin makes way instead.

Doc for Fish. Dow unfortunately makes way for Cripps on team balance.

If we'd been smart with our selections this week I'd have considered Boyd. Three weeks suspended, a month in the VFL and two weeks doing nothing, you can't play a final off that preparation.

Motlop or Dow sub depending on the conditions.


Motlop has to start. Our most dangerous small forward and has the most tackles inside 50 by some distance


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More than Owies?

I'd say Owies is our most consistently dangerous small forward, and if we only went with one small forward I'd pick Owies ahead of Motlop this year. Motlop is still developing and will be overtaking all before him in the next year or two imo.


Owies is more consistent, but I think Motlop is more dangerous, if that makes sense. I think Motlop is more likely to turn a game on its head, but he also can go missing. Owies you know what you’re going to get. Always good but never brilliant. Both are a lock in my best 22 ahead of Durdin, Cuningham, Fogarty


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Agree, but Cuningham is very differnet to the 4 you mention.

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jake_h03
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:08 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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rhino27 wrote:
Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.


Motlop has the most tackles inside 50 at Carlton with 28. Next best is 18.


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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:11 am 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
The brave move would be Pitto for Harry. Can't say Pitto's form in the last month makes me want to support it. If it was JSOS available I'd be calling for it. Durdin makes way instead.

Doc for Fish. Dow unfortunately makes way for Cripps on team balance.

If we'd been smart with our selections this week I'd have considered Boyd. Three weeks suspended, a month in the VFL and two weeks doing nothing, you can't play a final off that preparation.

Motlop or Dow sub depending on the conditions.


Motlop has to start. Our most dangerous small forward and has the most tackles inside 50 by some distance


Issue with Cuningham is and has been his entire career he doesn’t do enough. Looks good when he does but really goes missing a lot more
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More than Owies?

I'd say Owies is our most consistently dangerous small forward, and if we only went with one small forward I'd pick Owies ahead of Motlop this year. Motlop is still developing and will be overtaking all before him in the next year or two imo.


Owies is more consistent, but I think Motlop is more dangerous, if that makes sense. I think Motlop is more likely to turn a game on its head, but he also can go missing. Owies you know what you’re going to get. Always good but never brilliant. Both are a lock in my best 22 ahead of Durdin, Cuningham, Fogarty


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Agree, but Cuningham is very differnet to the 4 you mention.
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jake_h03
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:11 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
The brave move would be Pitto for Harry. Can't say Pitto's form in the last month makes me want to support it. If it was JSOS available I'd be calling for it. Durdin makes way instead.

Doc for Fish. Dow unfortunately makes way for Cripps on team balance.

If we'd been smart with our selections this week I'd have considered Boyd. Three weeks suspended, a month in the VFL and two weeks doing nothing, you can't play a final off that preparation.

Motlop or Dow sub depending on the conditions.


Motlop has to start. Our most dangerous small forward and has the most tackles inside 50 by some distance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



More than Owies?

I'd say Owies is our most consistently dangerous small forward, and if we only went with one small forward I'd pick Owies ahead of Motlop this year. Motlop is still developing and will be overtaking all before him in the next year or two imo.


Owies is more consistent, but I think Motlop is more dangerous, if that makes sense. I think Motlop is more likely to turn a game on its head, but he also can go missing. Owies you know what you’re going to get. Always good but never brilliant. Both are a lock in my best 22 ahead of Durdin, Cuningham, Fogarty


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Agree, but Cuningham is very differnet to the 4 you mention.


Absolutely Cunners is more I high half forward / mid as opposed to a genuine small forward, but there is going to be a selection squeeze and a few will have to make way. I’m just saying I’d pick Motlop and Owies before the rest at this point in time


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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:26 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jake_h03 wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.


Motlop has the most tackles inside 50 at Carlton with 28. Next best is 18.


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That's a huge difference. But only 1 and a bit per game.

Just checked footywire and he's applied 46 tackles or 2.6 a game.
If that is correct, they are huge numbers, as opposed to just over 1 per game, which, if that's his primary role, to apply pressure, I would want to see improvement TBH.

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FarmerBlue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:33 am 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.


Motlop has the most tackles inside 50 at Carlton with 28. Next best is 18.


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That's a huge difference. But only 1 and a bit per game.

Just checked footywire and he's applied 46 tackles or 2.6 a game.
If that is correct, they are huge numbers, as opposed to just over 1 per game, which, if that's his primary role, to apply pressure, I would want to see improvement TBH.


Since coming back in he has been much improved and still very young
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jake_h03 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

Owies is more consistent, but I think Motlop is more dangerous, if that makes sense. I think Motlop is more likely to turn a game on its head, but he also can go missing. Owies you know what you’re going to get. Always good but never brilliant. Both are a lock in my best 22 ahead of Durdin, Cuningham, Fogarty


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Agree, but Cuningham is very differnet to the 4 you mention.


Absolutely Cunners is more I high half forward / mid as opposed to a genuine small forward, but there is going to be a selection squeeze and a few will have to make way. I’m just saying I’d pick Motlop and Owies before the rest at this point in time


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2 HHF Cuningham and Martin
2 Sm F's Owies and Motlop
2 KPF's Harry & Charlie
1 Fwd-ruck TDK

There you go...Durdin and Fogarty are depth.

I know you prefer 1 ruck Farmer, but you will have to accept Vossy's preference, whatever it is, but after last week's game going in with one ruck, I can't see us playing Finals with one ruck and robbing Peter to pay for Paul (Taking away our CHF to play in te ruck). We will see.

Apart from the time Pitto came back to play one game in the VFL after being out for a long time with knee injury, and last week's experiment (in the dead rubber), Vossy has settled for 2 rucks. I back him rather than wanting to squeeze small faves in or squeeze a ruck out of Harry, which he is not.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:39 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
Surely we go in with both Owies and Motlop. Love the energy they both bring as well as them both hitting the scoreboard and defensive pressure. Motlop still working on the defensive side but has improved a lot in that area.


Motlop has the most tackles inside 50 at Carlton with 28. Next best is 18.


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That's a huge difference. But only 1 and a bit per game.

Just checked footywire and he's applied 46 tackles or 2.6 a game.
If that is correct, they are huge numbers, as opposed to just over 1 per game, which, if that's his primary role, to apply pressure, I would want to see improvement TBH.


Since coming back in he has been much improved and still very young


Those 4 goals he kicked after a last minute call up and his pressure since has cemented him in the AFL team. He was lost or fatigued prior to being dropped.

Many posters wanted to argue that he Durdin and Fisher didn't deserve to be dropped until they were dropped for good reason. It happens and may happen again before the season ends. Heat is on to keep spot in the team. Love it.

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