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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
So, I don't really understand the AFL player market... but if NM is offering Fisher 5 years, doesn't that mean we should be demanding far more than a 3rd rounder? I realise I'm muddling the trade of a contracted player with free agency, but... uh... what am I saying? I dunno. But I want more!

Also, I'd have no problems with trading LOB for a 4th rounder or whatever, just don't like the idea of buying out contracts and dumping players in the absence of disciplinary issues. Seems a dishonorable course of action. Maybe the football fraternity don't have a problem with it.

100%

-The suggestions of coaches getting paid out as being the same as players being paid out is farcical at best.
One is soft cap which is rarely used in full and the other is salary cap which is tight and heavily scrutinised.
- Trading on LOB is a more realistic scenario, like Setterfield last year.
- The other issue regarding the need to bring in two rookies is not as linear as suggested.
Why can't one or two of the current rookies be promoted and then there is space to add the 2 rookies, especially if we are trading out players etc.
- Regarding salary cap space, clubs only go to Ireland if your space is tight or the talent in Australia is not there and there is plenty of talent in Australia at the moment.
- I get we are moving players on and creating space but we may also be eyeing of more mature talent to trade in this year at a cost (Gresham) or we are looking to lock in developing players longer.

And Bondi if you actually know something say you know rather than the ambiguous comments like LOB won't be here at the end of the year or next.
Which one is it, because we all know his contract ends next year anyway, stop sitting on the fence as you've stated.


Yeah right Cru.

I find most of your points have been discussed and the point about caps is not farcical...they are contracts and they are caps. Full stop. Yes we know Ratten is a coach. yes we know Stewart is a player. get it. Its a friggin contract. Your tone is mischievous.

We've discussed the rookie upgrades, we've discussed everything you state, and mate, if you want to quote me, quote me, where did I post what you suggest? Find it. Then I will answer it. You may be representing what I said very wrong.

You're making up stuff and for that reason I couldn't be stuffed pulling you up on every point and revelations you see. You're a smart fella but find where i said what you suggested and we'll discuss that next, if you could be stuffed.

I've got guests and we're having a laugh.

Soooooo...........you don't know anything then?

You speak about contracts as if you are the only one who understands them. I've been in business for over 25 years, I think I know how contracts work.
But we are not really speaking about contracts are we, we are speaking about wasting valuable salary cap space and the suggestion of paying out a contract for nothing in return.
If our list management and Austin do this then we really need to be asking, can they do their job properly.

And yes, I can't be stuffed quoting you...........I'm sure you can read your posts on the last two pages to see what you wrote if you can't remember.

As for you having guests over, aside from the absolute weirdness of the comment, may I suggest if you are posting on TC while you have guests over you may need to find more entertaining ones. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

No mate, you need them explained, so I do, just for you, and you've read the lat 2 pages of posts and still don't get it :lol:

I've known people in business for 50 years who still don't understand contracts, because they have so much money, they will pay someone to find a way to get what they want.

I'm telling you that paying out LOBs contract is cheap and not ludicrous as you think. It creates a spot on the list. Why not wait till season is finished and see what happens. Given what you continue to post (your beliefs/ fixation on LOB etc), you will be surprised and somewhat shocked to see what Carlton and other teams do and can do during Trade time, including delistings; there's always surprises, and reasons for them, perhaps out of your scope.

As for my guests, I tell you what, you'd love to be here partying with us, its a lot of fun fun fun ... I showed a couple of them TC and BF and to have a laugh at what some people post. They laughed at yours, because you just don't get simple models...despite having them explained to you for weeks.

Enjoy the Finals. Don't let the thought of losing LOB for nothing spoil the opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:16 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
100%

-The suggestions of coaches getting paid out as being the same as players being paid out is farcical at best.
One is soft cap which is rarely used in full and the other is salary cap which is tight and heavily scrutinised.
- Trading on LOB is a more realistic scenario, like Setterfield last year.
- The other issue regarding the need to bring in two rookies is not as linear as suggested.
Why can't one or two of the current rookies be promoted and then there is space to add the 2 rookies, especially if we are trading out players etc.
- Regarding salary cap space, clubs only go to Ireland if your space is tight or the talent in Australia is not there and there is plenty of talent in Australia at the moment.
- I get we are moving players on and creating space but we may also be eyeing of more mature talent to trade in this year at a cost (Gresham) or we are looking to lock in developing players longer.

And Bondi if you actually know something say you know rather than the ambiguous comments like LOB won't be here at the end of the year or next.
Which one is it, because we all know his contract ends next year anyway, stop sitting on the fence as you've stated.


Yeah right Cru.

I find most of your points have been discussed and the point about caps is not farcical...they are contracts and they are caps. Full stop. Yes we know Ratten is a coach. yes we know Stewart is a player. get it. Its a friggin contract. Your tone is mischievous.

We've discussed the rookie upgrades, we've discussed everything you state, and mate, if you want to quote me, quote me, where did I post what you suggest? Find it. Then I will answer it. You may be representing what I said very wrong.

You're making up stuff and for that reason I couldn't be stuffed pulling you up on every point and revelations you see. You're a smart fella but find where i said what you suggested and we'll discuss that next, if you could be stuffed.

I've got guests and we're having a laugh.

Soooooo...........you don't know anything then?

You speak about contracts as if you are the only one who understands them. I've been in business for over 25 years, I think I know how contracts work.
But we are not really speaking about contracts are we, we are speaking about wasting valuable salary cap space and the suggestion of paying out a contract for nothing in return.
If our list management and Austin do this then we really need to be asking, can they do their job properly.

And yes, I can't be stuffed quoting you...........I'm sure you can read your posts on the last two pages to see what you wrote if you can't remember.

As for you having guests over, aside from the absolute weirdness of the comment, may I suggest if you are posting on TC while you have guests over you may need to find more entertaining ones. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

No mate, you need them explained, so I do, just for you, and you've read the lat 2 pages of posts and still don't get it :lol:

I've known people in business for 50 years who still don't understand contracts, because they have so much money, they will pay someone to find a way to get what they want.

I'm telling you that paying out LOBs contract is cheap and not ludicrous as you think. It creates a spot on the list. Why not wait till season is finished and see what happens. Given what you continue to post (your beliefs/ fixation on LOB etc), you will be surprised and somewhat shocked to see what Carlton and other teams do and can do during Trade time, including delistings; there's always surprises, and reasons for them, perhaps out of your scope.

As for my guests, I tell you what, you'd love to be here partying with us, its a lot of fun fun fun ... I showed a couple of them TC and BF and to have a laugh at what some people post. They laughed at yours, because you just don't get simple models...despite having them explained to you for weeks.

Enjoy the Finals. Don't let the thought of losing LOB for nothing spoil the opportunity.

So you are only guessing.
Fair enough, you should've just come out and said it.

To pay out a minimal rookie contract and lose salary cap space for zero in return is ludicrous, no matter what BS you want to spin on it.
Trade yes, even a Setterfield type trade, totally plausible.

Sounds like fun fun fun, you seem to be going for a bit of group bias there mate, very Trump like.
If that makes you feel better about yourself, go for it.
Though I hope you had the toupee to match. :lol:
However, the thought of inviting people over to my place to talk about social media or forum conversations about football for self validation is an extremely weird concept to me, but hey each to their own, you do you.
I guess my guests are little more diverse and interesting, so I will apologise to you now that I have never mentioned you to them and probably won't because as above.

All that being said, I guess it's safe to say we will have to agree to disagree on this topic, still.

Now cheer up you're an alright bloke, a bit out there but who isn't and you seem like a good egg that bleeds blue too.
And it's finals Baby!!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 3:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Tom Morris - Gold Coast will listen to offers for Elijah Hollands, who is contracted for 2024. Pick 7 in 2020.

Brotherly connection. Future second?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 3:21 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Yes I have talked about this in the recruitment section ironically in Gresham thread


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
FarmerBlue wrote:
Tom Morris - Gold Coast will listen to offers for Elijah Hollands, who is contracted for 2024. Pick 7 in 2020.

Brotherly connection. Future second?

A couple of late rounders for their points and you'd have to have a serious look.
Especially if it is a Jack Bowes like deal.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:57 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:

Now cheer up you're an alright bloke, a bit out there but who isn't and you seem like a good egg that bleeds blue too.
And it's finals Baby!!


That's the spirit. We all bleed Blue.

I am a nut. I'm a Navy Blue nut.
And I like to party to have fun fun fun because Im a nut.
Apart from immediate family, I buy memberships for close ones to ensure I have enough Bluebaggers around to celebrate our wins whichever city I'm at on the east coast.

When we beat Sydney Swans at the MCG, I'm going to celebrate it so hard in Sydney..my newfound arrogance
When we beat the Pies or the Dees the following week at the MCG, I'm in Melb for a week to celebrate...my newfound arrogance

We are back where we belong: Finals babeeee

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
I hope we smash them.
You may have to do a nudie run out the front of the Swans club with a Carlton scarf on for the press coverage.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:08 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
frank dardew wrote:
Yes I have talked about this in the recruitment section ironically in Gresham thread


You did to, a coupla times there frank.

Quote:
News reports today suggest that Ollie Hollands brother is gettable for the right trade

We probably dont have that much to give GC but who knows.

Wouldnt be giving up first pick though


Yes please has bene the response, and we can find a way if Austin wants to trade for young talent.

I think Austin was looking for a FA because we dont have picks.

Then again, if Austin really wanted Elijah, I reckon he could find a way to make it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
Elijah Hewett.........hell yeah.
Just kidding, still spewing we didn't get this kid.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:42 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Tom Morris - Gold Coast will listen to offers for Elijah Hollands, who is contracted for 2024. Pick 7 in 2020.

Brotherly connection. Future second?

A couple of late rounders for their points and you'd have to have a serious look.
Especially if it is a Jack Bowes like deal.


They need picks. Can we somehow bundle picks next year for picks this year to trade to GCS for Hollands. Then add our pick 18 this year for another good young player :smoking:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2816
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Tom Morris - Gold Coast will listen to offers for Elijah Hollands, who is contracted for 2024. Pick 7 in 2020.

Brotherly connection. Future second?

A couple of late rounders for their points and you'd have to have a serious look.
Especially if it is a Jack Bowes like deal.


They need picks. Can we somehow bundle picks next year for picks this year to trade to GCS for Hollands. Then add our pick 18 this year for another good young player :smoking:


Straight swap for Dow


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:38 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
What type of player is he? Is he like his brother?
If so, do we really need him? We have Ollie, Binns, the Campo boys. What need does he fill?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:04 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2816
rhino27 wrote:
What type of player is he? Is he like his brother?
If so, do we really need him? We have Ollie, Binns, the Campo boys. What need does he fill?


Reads like the hybrid mid/forward. His draft profile says explosive, X factor and booming kick.

Has had a significant injury which ticks our other requirements


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:48 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
DesEnglish wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
What type of player is he? Is he like his brother?
If so, do we really need him? We have Ollie, Binns, the Campo boys. What need does he fill?


Reads like the hybrid mid/forward. His draft profile says explosive, X factor and booming kick.

Has had a significant injury which ticks our other requirements


Thanks. So if he is good overhead, he and Jack M can tag team from being on the park and being injured.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:34 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Liam Henry reporting to what to move to Melbourne.

Unlikely but he would really add to our side


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:39 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
Liam Henry reporting to what to move to Melbourne.

Unlikely but he would really add to our side


Hawks in the box seat.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:56 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
FarmerBlue wrote:
Liam Henry reporting to what to move to Melbourne.

Unlikely but he would really add to our side


Henry to Melb
Grundy to Port
Georgiades to Freo

Classic win-win-win 3 way trade

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:05 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8944
Location: Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Liam Henry reporting to what to move to Melbourne.

Unlikely but he would really add to our side


Richmond in the box seat.


EFA

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:06 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8944
Location: Melbourne
bluebo baggers wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Liam Henry reporting to what to move to Melbourne.

Unlikely but he would really add to our side


Henry to Melb
Grundy to Port
Georgiades to Freo

Classic win-win-win 3 way trade


Georgiades will sign with Port

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
SEN’s Sam Edmund has provided the latest on a whole host of players whose futures are uncertain.

Quote:
Jack Silvagni (Carlton)

“No, not happening,” said Edmund when asked if Silvagni was set to leave for the Gold Coast.

“In fact I think he’s actually a really good chance to stay at Carlton.

“It’s far from guaranteed, of course he could leave, but just the vibe I get speaking to people is that he will now stay. He wants to stay, he loves the club, he’s Carlton through and through, but of course the deal has to be right.

“My read could be way off but just the feeling I get speaking to people around this who make the decisions are that things are moving towards re-signing.

“I’m also not sure the rival interest has been enormous either. I just think he stays.”


Quote:
Zac Fisher (Carlton)

I think it’s highly likely (that he leaves).

“North Melbourne are prepared to offer a big contract for someone like Zac Fisher, maybe as long as five years which sounds extraordinary but that is the whisper doing the rounds.

“He will have some options.”


Quote:
Paddy Dow (Carlton)

“Right now Paddy Dow is still in something of a holding phase in regards to his playing future.

“The last month or two hasn’t changed a lot. There is widespread interest from other clubs because when he’s come into the Carlton setup he’s equipped himself quite well.

“St Kilda, Hawthorn, a couple of others will come. Paddy does want to stay at Carlton, that’s not the issue, but the opportunity is.

“He wants to play, the next couple of weeks are going to be crucial. This seems like a 50-50 call at the moment.”


Quote:
Lochie O’Brien (Carlton)

“On the market, will not be at Carlton next year. Available to a rival club at the right price.”


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/08/30/sam-edmunds-trade-and-contract-update-on-18-afl-players/

It was only a matter of time that this would come out.

As you see Sidex (I PMed you yesterday with some info), its not me where this is coming from. Its not even news anymore. Its a cheap contract, and he's taking up a space, and a decision will be made either way. Doesnt look good for LOB.

And Dow's value is rising the more exposure he gets for those who dont believe that is happening.

Highlighted bits we've discussed on TC

Quote:
Jade Gresham (St Kilda)

“That’s a hard one.

“Gresham has been out there for quite a while now, but something of a star on the wane too at St Kilda.

“It’s hard to find a home for Jade Gresham. I’m not sure Carlton are as interested as they once were.”

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Last edited by bondiblue on Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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