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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:18 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 588
AGRO wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BREAKING: Carlton will pick a full-strength side including Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Mitch McGovern. The Blues are confident Patrick Cripps will be fit to play despite a heavily collision but will depend on the stakes. Matt Kennedy (knee) is also in line to play

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Wow Kennedy too. If all 3 of Walsh, Cerra, and Kennedy are back and Cripps play surely that means Dow is out. Highly doubt Cripps will play though



Cripps needs the 20 day break - it’s a no brainer.
Agreed.

There's no way he's Cherry Ripe in only a week, after what we saw on Saturday.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:43 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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Cerra Walsh Kennedy Silvagni Boyd Fogarty McGovern all likely available this week. WOW


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:44 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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BamBam7 wrote:
AGRO wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BREAKING: Carlton will pick a full-strength side including Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Mitch McGovern. The Blues are confident Patrick Cripps will be fit to play despite a heavily collision but will depend on the stakes. Matt Kennedy (knee) is also in line to play

Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk


Wow Kennedy too. If all 3 of Walsh, Cerra, and Kennedy are back and Cripps play surely that means Dow is out. Highly doubt Cripps will play though



Cripps needs the 20 day break - it’s a no brainer.
Agreed.

There's no way he's Cherry Ripe in only a week, after what we saw on Saturday.


Rumor he has broken ribs


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:50 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
AGRO wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BREAKING: Carlton will pick a full-strength side including Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Mitch McGovern. The Blues are confident Patrick Cripps will be fit to play despite a heavily collision but will depend on the stakes. Matt Kennedy (knee) is also in line to play

Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk


Wow Kennedy too. If all 3 of Walsh, Cerra, and Kennedy are back and Cripps play surely that means Dow is out. Highly doubt Cripps will play though



Cripps needs the 20 day break - it’s a no brainer.


Agree. We need a fresh Cripps going into September.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:50 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2742
jake_h03 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BREAKING: Carlton will pick a full-strength side including Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Mitch McGovern. The Blues are confident Patrick Cripps will be fit to play despite a heavily collision but will depend on the stakes. Matt Kennedy (knee) is also in line to play

Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk


Wow Kennedy too. If all 3 of Walsh, Cerra, and Kennedy are back and Cripps play surely that means Dow is out. Highly doubt Cripps will play though


I imagine Crippa won’t play and Kennedy will be the sub with the aim of giving him (and whoever he comes on for) predetermined minutes, absent injuries.
Eg. Kennedy comes on for Cerra half way through the third quarter or at 3/4 time…


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:03 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
If I was Docherty, I wouldn't want the rest. He needs a game to redeem himself.
I thought he was very poor on Saturday. Back to the old school Carlton Cripps/Docherty leadership model of scungeing kicks off everyone else. He has an amazing ability of sucking the momentum out of our team when we're on a roll by calling for backwards kicks, ignoring better options to give the ball to or calling for the cheap disposal when someone else has done the hard work and then turning it over.
As I've said before, he's not a midfielder but when he plays there, he needs to do better than chasing cheap disposals. 5 contested possessions and 1 clearance is nowhere near good enough. Especially when the captain is sitting on the bottom of packs with half a mattress tied around his waist.
He needs to go back to the wing but I'd be tempted to play Hollands instead so Doc had better pull a rabbit out because he's playing himself out of our best 22 IMHO.


He's playing himself out of your 22 BV.

Docs played a great midfield role over the last month, and I have'nt heard you criticise him when he has played well, but when the stats don't show enough, he's not a midfielder, he's a wingman.


Nice post. Light on facts but great drama.
Go back and have a look. I've said all along Docherty isn't a midfielder. He's been playing his best footy for a while on the wing and that's where he'll get a game. I've posted numerous times that when Cerra and Walsh return, he's out of our midfield and back to the wing. But let's not let the facts get in the way. :thumbsup:


My point is straight forward and easy to understand.

You do not criticise Doc as a midfielder when he plays well in the midfield, and he's played well as a midfielder for 4 weeks in a row till the GC game. He was brilliant as a mid, in the Finals like game we won against the Dees, when Walsh and Cerra were missing. Proves against your assertion, he can play midfield. That's all.

I will be happy for him to play wing when the troops are back, but no way would I expect Voss to not call on him to play midfield if we need to mix things up, just because he had one average game against GC after a stretch of great games.

Do you think its you may be deflecting by making wild assertions and adding mayo suggesting "he is playing himself out of our best 22", so much so, you are "tempted to play Hollands instead of Doc", and needs to play this week for the purpose of "redeeming himself". I know you're trying to make the point you weren't happy with his game vs GC, but to make the way you have is laughable to TBH. Admit it. Its a "Slight" exaggeration his form leaves him on the verge of losing his spot.

Doc will not be dropped, and is a strong candidate to play midfield minutes during Finals, and wing, and when needed. No dramas. No controversy. No exaggeration. You can take it to the bank.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:10 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
kezza wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Carlton mania is live and well.

I just got off a phone call with some interesting tidbits I will share:

After the game on Saturday, Voss asked everyone to leave the rooms and called in all the players, including VFL, to join the AFL team that played and won against the Suns, to sing the song together.

Vossy's take home message is "Winning is not about making Finals, its a lot lot more than that", alluding to Holy Grail, not just this year but beyond, and both teams are building and will have opportunity at this club.

We will not see the best of Pittonet this year, and he will be playing with his knee not 100%. Wont get worse and wont get better. His role in the team is to hurt,wear out, fall on, jump into the monster ruckmen (as he did Gawn and Witts) paving the way for TDK to jump all over them as happened last year in round 1 vs Tigers, and it is working. Vossy loves Pitto and TDK combo.

Cripps wants to play vs GWS but has bruised rib cartilage a couple weeks rest would allow to heel. Only one who may be rested. The rest are all fine to go and continue the momentum.

Cripps and Pitto the only ones who might be rested, but doubt Pitto will be rested.

Dow's manager has an offer from the club but knows he will still be behind the current midfield group next year, so he's not taking up the offer and likely to....

Walsh Cerra Gov Cherry ripe.

Not sure why SOS came off half way through 2nd quarter in reserves. Cuningham wasn't injured when he was subbed out.

Bottom line is winning form and continuing the momentum is important.

Cheers for the info.
It is a bit disappointing about Dow but completely understandable and I am sure we will all wish him well.
I was at the GC game and it will have taken a bit out of the playing group.
By the time our game is on it may be a dead rubber so I guess that is an advantage for us.


I didn't finish the sentence...not likely to take up our offer to sit behind our best group of mids for another year when he has a couple teams offering 2-3 year contracts to play midfield with other teams.

Cripps must be rested for this game regardless of what he wants. He needs to heal those ribs and that's not going to happen if he keeps getting knocks to the area. He really faded in the 2nd half last week.

I bet that sun took its toll on the group. I had mates who live on the Gold Coast and went to the game tell me it was hot in the middle, when the wind eased.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:29 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Watched a fair bit of GWS this year and they have been pretty good
Sides that beat them don't allow them to have the corridor - They use it more than most and run in waves through the middle linking up with handball if they miss the target they dont care they keep knocking it forward - When we played them early in the year we gave up 4 goals in the first quarter where they waltz through the middle until it was addressed at quarter time .
Hogan plays from the square and leads straight out takes most of his shots on goal directly in front - Toby and Riccardi lead left and right - not easy to defend when you allow them to run through the middle.
If you pressure the ball carrier and force the turn over in the middle and not allow the over lapping hand ball they can be scored against easily. Teams have also tried to make Taylor accountable as he sets up everything from the back

Really interested in how we approach this game I don't want to see them take the foot of the pedal like they did first quarter against Gold coast but can this high pressure game be maintained for the next 4 to 5 weeks

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:38 am 
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Laurie Kerr

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Posts: 120
On Doch, champion data had him far and away the best and highest impact player on the ground vs. Melbourne before being subbed out.

And he copped a pretty heavy knock on the calf in that game, it's not surprising that he struggled to back it up this week.

The end might come fast as he turns 30 next year, but he is still in the first 5 selected every week for the time being.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:41 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Watched a fair bit of GWS this year and they have been pretty good
Sides that beat them don't allow them to have the corridor - They use it more than most and run in waves through the middle linking up with handball if they miss the target they dont care they keep knocking it forward - When we played them early in the year we gave up 4 goals in the first quarter where they waltz through the middle until it was addressed at quarter time .
Hogan plays from the square and leads straight out takes most of his shots on goal directly in front - Toby and Riccardi lead left and right - not easy to defend when you allow them to run through the middle.
If you pressure the ball carrier and force the turn over in the middle and not allow the over lapping hand ball they can be scored against easily. Teams have also tried to make Taylor accountable as he sets up everything from the back

Really interested in how we approach this game I don't want to see them take the foot of the pedal like they did first quarter against Gold coast but can this high pressure game be maintained for the next 4 to 5 weeks


Geez , you know your onions Syd . Summed up well . Another thing about them they are a very big strong side . Must match them on the attack on the ball . Wilt just slightly and they will murder you EG Essendon* last week . Reckon this is a game where we have to get in there heads and show them who's Boss . Never give a bully an inch .

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:43 am 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:46 pm
Posts: 120
Also for those who have been critical of Kemp, what exactly was the problem with his game on the weekend?

I had a prior commitment so I couldn't watch the game live. After and looking at the score postgame I decided to only watch the replay of the 2nd and 4th quarters.

For the time I was watching I thought Kemp wasn't just good, he was excellent. Didn't lose a 1v1 and looked like a 100 game player.

Were all his mistakes in qtr 1 and 3 or something?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:49 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
If I was Docherty, I wouldn't want the rest. He needs a game to redeem himself.
I thought he was very poor on Saturday. Back to the old school Carlton Cripps/Docherty leadership model of scungeing kicks off everyone else. He has an amazing ability of sucking the momentum out of our team when we're on a roll by calling for backwards kicks, ignoring better options to give the ball to or calling for the cheap disposal when someone else has done the hard work and then turning it over.
As I've said before, he's not a midfielder but when he plays there, he needs to do better than chasing cheap disposals. 5 contested possessions and 1 clearance is nowhere near good enough. Especially when the captain is sitting on the bottom of packs with half a mattress tied around his waist.
He needs to go back to the wing but I'd be tempted to play Hollands instead so Doc had better pull a rabbit out because he's playing himself out of our best 22 IMHO.


He's playing himself out of your 22 BV.

Docs played a great midfield role over the last month, and I have'nt heard you criticise him when he has played well, but when the stats don't show enough, he's not a midfielder, he's a wingman.


Nice post. Light on facts but great drama.
Go back and have a look. I've said all along Docherty isn't a midfielder. He's been playing his best footy for a while on the wing and that's where he'll get a game. I've posted numerous times that when Cerra and Walsh return, he's out of our midfield and back to the wing. But let's not let the facts get in the way. :thumbsup:


My point is straight forward and easy to understand.

You do not criticise Doc as a midfielder when he plays well in the midfield, and he's played well as a midfielder for 4 weeks in a row till the GC game. He was brilliant as a mid, in the Finals like game we won against the Dees, when Walsh and Cerra were missing. Proves against your assertion, he can play midfield. That's all.

I will be happy for him to play wing when the troops are back, but no way would I expect Voss to not call on him to play midfield if we need to mix things up, just because he had one average game against GC after a stretch of great games.

Do you think its you may be deflecting by making wild assertions and adding mayo suggesting "he is playing himself out of our best 22", so much so, you are "tempted to play Hollands instead of Doc", and needs to play this week for the purpose of "redeeming himself". I know you're trying to make the point you weren't happy with his game vs GC, but to make the way you have is laughable to TBH. Admit it. Its a "Slight" exaggeration his form leaves him on the verge of losing his spot.

Doc will not be dropped, and is a strong candidate to play midfield minutes during Finals, and wing, and when needed. No dramas. No controversy. No exaggeration. You can take it to the bank.


Have you been hitting the sherry?
I just gave an opinion. He is playing himself out of my best 22. If he's in yours, fantastic.
I'm not deflecting or making "wild assertions". I've said all along he's not a midfielder. Do your research. It's no different to saying Lewis Young isn't a ruckman. He can play there but he wont have an AFL career there.
Doc stunk it up Saturday. don't take my word for it. Plenty of other posters share the same view. He doesn't win his own ball. He had 2 centre clearances over 4 weeks playing as a midfielder. He's played his best footy on the wing this year.

Interestingly I stated a couple of weeks ago that Doc will move back to the wing, possibly at Ollie Hollands expense and you stated it's Hollands "spot to lose from here to Finals.
He's the incumbent, and has been since round 1.
He might win a Flag in his first year on a wing like Scott Camporeale.
I've had that feeling about him since his first game, round 1."

So is he best 22 on the wing? Does he push out Hollands or Acres?
Is he best 22 as a midfielder? Is he best 22 in the back 7?
Spots aren't that easy to keep if we get everyone back. Yes Doc is a great story but sentiment goes out the window in finals. Like JSOS he has to earn a role and deserve to keep it. Playing like Saturday isn't up to standard.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:52 am 
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Harry Vallence

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peabody wrote:
On Doch, champion data had him far and away the best and highest impact player on the ground vs. Melbourne before being subbed out.

And he copped a pretty heavy knock on the calf in that game, it's not surprising that he struggled to back it up this week.

The end might come fast as he turns 30 next year, but he is still in the first 5 selected every week for the time being.


He was definitely sore in the weekend. Against Melbourne he was awesome.

The rest will do him wonders. Will be vital in September


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:56 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm not a big fan of multiple changes - some are suggesting 5 ins. That's a lot of change for a reasonably settled side, especially with a number coming back off mulitple week layoffs. I wish the Two's hadn't stunk it up so badly last week.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:05 am 
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Craig Bradley
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FarmerBlue wrote:
BamBam7 wrote:
AGRO wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BREAKING: Carlton will pick a full-strength side including Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra and Mitch McGovern. The Blues are confident Patrick Cripps will be fit to play despite a heavily collision but will depend on the stakes. Matt Kennedy (knee) is also in line to play

Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk


Wow Kennedy too. If all 3 of Walsh, Cerra, and Kennedy are back and Cripps play surely that means Dow is out. Highly doubt Cripps will play though



Cripps needs the 20 day break - it’s a no brainer.
Agreed.

There's no way he's Cherry Ripe in only a week, after what we saw on Saturday.


Rumor he has broken ribs


rib cartilage.

i've done both ... he wouldn't be able to play with broken ribs. medics wouldn't allow it. one wrong whack and those broken ribs start turning inwards and stabbing major organs.


rib cartilage tears are more painful than broken ribs, but you can still move - albeit in pain and under duress.


Last edited by Braithy on Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21415
Location: North of the border
Mickstar wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Watched a fair bit of GWS this year and they have been pretty good
Sides that beat them don't allow them to have the corridor - They use it more than most and run in waves through the middle linking up with handball if they miss the target they dont care they keep knocking it forward - When we played them early in the year we gave up 4 goals in the first quarter where they waltz through the middle until it was addressed at quarter time .
Hogan plays from the square and leads straight out takes most of his shots on goal directly in front - Toby and Riccardi lead left and right - not easy to defend when you allow them to run through the middle.
If you pressure the ball carrier and force the turn over in the middle and not allow the over lapping hand ball they can be scored against easily. Teams have also tried to make Taylor accountable as he sets up everything from the back

Really interested in how we approach this game I don't want to see them take the foot of the pedal like they did first quarter against Gold coast but can this high pressure game be maintained for the next 4 to 5 weeks


Geez , you know your onions Syd . Summed up well . Another thing about them they are a very big strong side . Must match them on the attack on the ball . Wilt just slightly and they will murder you EG Essendon** last week . Reckon this is a game where we have to get in there heads and show them who's Boss . Never give a bully an inch .



Only played in Melbourne twice this year at Marvel and MCG lost both games - they won in Geelong and Ballarat
they have been the everywhere team played at 12 different venues

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:14 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Heavs wrote:
I'm not a big fan of multiple changes - some are suggesting 5 ins. That's a lot of change for a reasonably settled side, especially with a number coming back off mulitple week layoffs. I wish the Two's hadn't stunk it up so badly last week.


I am usually of the same way of thinking but they have been playing bash and crash now for 9 weeks straight and appeared lethargic in the first quarter against Gold Coast - 5 changes with he Quality of Walsh Cerra and Gov coming in doesn't concern me - another week of expecting Dow, Hewett and Cripps to shoulder the load in midfield could be tipping point.
Coming into finals Fisher is going to be made accountable and dragged back to one on ones he will be exposed as much as his ball use has been good he is not a defender - Need Boyd back as he can both defend and attack

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Heavs wrote:
I'm not a big fan of multiple changes - some are suggesting 5 ins. That's a lot of change for a reasonably settled side, especially with a number coming back off mulitple week layoffs. I wish the Two's hadn't stunk it up so badly last week.


I am usually of the same way of thinking but they have been playing bash and crash now for 9 weeks straight and appeared lethargic in the first quarter against Gold Coast - 5 changes with he Quality of Walsh Cerra and Gov coming in doesn't concern me - another week of expecting Dow, Hewett and Cripps to shoulder the load in midfield could be tipping point.
Coming into finals Fisher is going to be made accountable and dragged back to one on ones he will be exposed as much as his ball use has been good he is not a defender - Need Boyd back as he can both defend and attack


I guess it's more the week after when you'll need to make changes again. I mean it's a lot better than Out: Merrington In: Livingstone days but still

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I like Boyd but reports are he wasn't much good in the 2s.

8 touches when the ball was down his end all day :?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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CK95 wrote:
I like Boyd but reports are he wasn't much good in the 2s.

8 touches when the ball was down his end all day :?


Was easily BOG the week before


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