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SurreyBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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bondiblue wrote:
Like I said, its a pretty good list.

We have beaten the 2 top sides in 3 weeks, but stopped our run of 50+ wins with a 16, shoulda been 50, point win.


:lol: :clap:
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CK95
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 3:11 am 
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Bruce Doull
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bondiblue wrote:
Like I said, its a pretty good list.

We have beaten the 2 top sides in 3 weeks, but stopped our run of 50+ wins with a 16, shoulda been 50, point win.
It definitely should have been 22. I was gutted when Martin missed that shot at the end :lol:

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:44 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24688
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:

We will get Gresham as a FA for aroun $4-500k a year over 3-4 years. That's okay. Has ability and fills a role that will help us

Cook will make sure our Salary Cap is under control and we aren't over spending. Gresham will come for finals opportunity over money

Won't cost us anyone else.

Re: Jack. He isn't going anywhere. Always does his contract late. No issue


Thanks Farmer.
Pleased to hear that. I’m not really happy with the Gresham move - would much prefer Flanders who I think has more upside. But if it doesn’t cost us any players and pretty cheap…


I see Gresham as a role player. He's just about to turn 26 and plays as a quick HF who can kick a goal and play some midfield. That is what we need. Add him to Motlop Cuningham Martin Owies Durdin supporting Charlie & Harry and it looks good. Also, adds leg speed which we need not to mention depth

He is not an A grade star but he brings things we need and his best can be very good. I like it

Flanders I really like if we can make it happen


Fair enough Farmer.

You name 7 forwards we can add Gresham to.
Adding Gresham makes it 8.
Now let’s say TDK or Pitto is first ruck. Who gives them chop out?
Let’s look at that.
If TDK is first ruck, then Inguess SOS will be waxing the ruck role. He will be spending most of his time in the forward line or on the bench with the other 2 forwards (remember with Gresham we have 8 forwards.

If Pitto is first ruck and TDK stays, TDK will be doing the same as the TDK first ruck scenario.
That gives us 9 forwards: 6 on the ground and 3 on the bench.

Nah, can’t buy your theory. Gresham is depth and yes he does kick the ODD goal, but that’s not what we are after.

He’s depth as a HF? OK, that’s when Martin or Cuningham are injured and Owies is also out plus someone else.

Gresham would be depth. Is that what we really need. I’d think for that one spot we have other pressing needs in the backline and in the ruck…developing young draftees to fill those roles later on.

If Austin takes Gresham, I will accept it but…..


I didn't say they would all play at once?

It's depth and competition for spots. It's what we desperately need to go to the next level. Hopefully he can play to his potential. Won't cost much and is a free hit


OK, but you are talking about paying $500K to, highly possible, a depth player: that's the point.

Of the 9 players who would Gresham be ahead of. He's not as good as you believe.

If TDKsigns for 2 years and accepts $600K which was reported by Ralph, because Carlton is a destination club and its window is open, how the f is Gresham worth 500. I would consider him for 350-400, but not sure I would without considering all the other better options out there.

The ball is in our court.

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BamBam7
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:28 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 583
bondiblue wrote:
OK, but you are talking about paying $500K to, highly possible, a depth player: that's the point.

Of the 9 players who would Gresham be ahead of. He's not as good as you believe.

If TDKsigns for 2 years and accepts $600K which was reported by Ralph, because Carlton is a destination club and its window is open, how the f is Gresham worth 500. I would consider him for 350-400, but not sure I would without considering all the other better options out there.

The ball is in our court.


Agreed, $500k on a depth player is crazy.

They'd wanna have a very specific role in mind for him if he's offered that sort of coin.

I have a really bad feeling about this signing. Granted, I had a bad feeling about last night too, so clearly I don't know shit.
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Rod Spooky Galt
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:11 am 
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Harry Vallence
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45 on the list (max of 44 needed). 36 on the senior list at the moment. Minimum three "live picks" needed.

Plowman/Philp the obvious cuts, Fisher to whoever for a pick for next year. Final spots probably dependent on whether Dow/McGovern/Silvagni want to stay/what compensation we'd get in return. If all three stay, probably re-rookie Marchbank, promote Boyd/Cottrell, use our first pick and call it a day.

Maybe retire Ed and hold a pick for mid season draft too.
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GMCbris
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
45 on the list (max of 44 needed). 36 on the senior list at the moment. Minimum three "live picks" needed.

Plowman/Philp the obvious cuts, Fisher to whoever for a pick for next year. Final spots probably dependent on whether Dow/McGovern/Silvagni want to stay/what compensation we'd get in return. If all three stay, probably re-rookie Marchbank, promote Boyd/Cottrell, use our first pick and call it a day.

Maybe retire Ed and hold a pick for mid season draft too.

From "as many as 15 wanting out" to this is amazing

I would like to see it exactly as spooky says!
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Rod Spooky Galt
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I had 13 out the door after the Pies game in fairness.

If any of them are out the door it becomes a little more complicated. I'm not against Ben McKay and two minimum wage contracts over those three out of contract, as I reckon Weitering can be even better if we've got a reliable second tall to allow him to play the Scarlett/Rance role.

At the same time, I'm generally against us getting "this close" and topping up unnecessarily. At this point only Owies, Boyd and Cottrell to be renewed next year. There's about six spots up for grabs. I'd rather be conservative at this point.
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FarmerBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 2:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
My Take is

Dow
Philp
Plowman
Fisher
Marchbank
Ed Curnow
Honey
all gone

Sam Durdin borderline but we need KPP's
Marchbank may be given pre season?

Others:
McGovern greatly reduced deal
Silvagni 2 year deal
DC one year deal
Fogarty one year?
Mirkov health issues?
O'Brien early payout?

We will get Gresham. Maybe one more and try and have 3-4 picks
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FarmerBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 3:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Important factors

Do we believe Williams can come back to his best
Can Binns Cowan Carroll C.Durdin become regulars next year
How far away are Mirkov Lemmey O’Keefe Akeui
What is the roles for Young & Silvagni
How many injuries prone players can we carry
Is there any Acres type deals around
Where do we lack depth the most
Do we feel we need some more class around the midfield
Do we need another mature Ruck?
Do we need more picks or 25 year olds on our list
Salary Cap position
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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:06 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24688
Location: Bondi Beach
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
45 on the list (max of 44 needed). 36 on the senior list at the moment. Minimum three "live picks" needed.

Plowman/Philp the obvious cuts, Fisher to whoever for a pick for next year. Final spots probably dependent on whether Dow/McGovern/Silvagni want to stay/what compensation we'd get in return. If all three stay, probably re-rookie Marchbank, promote Boyd/Cottrell, use our first pick and call it a day.

Maybe retire Ed and hold a pick for mid season draft too.


Glad to read your thoughts again Galty.

I love it, and its what I've thought all along.

All the crazy talk of dropping 8, 10, 15 players by posters and mad pro Mathieson, and, pro Lyon contingency of Carlton supporters who hadn't allowed more than half a season to play out, nor given some of our injured players a chance to show their stuff or proven to be over their ailments.

The only debate we should have is whether we go for another KPD in place of the out of contract players or not, and use the first pick on a great kid, or part of the trade.

If we can get something for Fisher and Dow and bundle up them up with other picks for points that would get us a decent pick, and upgrade some rookies, that would be it.

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24688
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
Important factors

Do we believe Williams can come back to his best
Can Binns Cowan Carroll C.Durdin become regulars next year
How far away are Mirkov Lemmey O’Keefe Akeui
What is the roles for Young & Silvagni
How many injuries prone players can we carry
Is there any Acres type deals around
Where do we lack depth the most
Do we feel we need some more class around the midfield
Do we need another mature Ruck?
Do we need more picks or 25 year olds on our list
Salary Cap position


I reckon they are all valid questions but the highlighted most pertinent.

You may know something we dont about Gresham, so be it, He's a free hit and would take Philp's spot. Sadly.

Plow allows us to take our first pick.

2 more rookie upgrades take 2 spots, Dow and Fisher's, and Ed retires as a rookie, and we are back on par because we had 1 or 2 extra players covering LTI's, woth Cincotta and O'Keefe re signed.

I just cant see a big clean out, especially of young ones. I feel for the young, Philp who isnt being played, and Honey's name being a constant with some posters, for the sake of creating a space when I would rather drop Marchy and Fog to rookie status.

We have a good list with plenty of young, hardly any 30yo and a bunch of 25-28yo.

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Rod Spooky Galt
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1390
bondiblue wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
45 on the list (max of 44 needed). 36 on the senior list at the moment. Minimum three "live picks" needed.

Plowman/Philp the obvious cuts, Fisher to whoever for a pick for next year. Final spots probably dependent on whether Dow/McGovern/Silvagni want to stay/what compensation we'd get in return. If all three stay, probably re-rookie Marchbank, promote Boyd/Cottrell, use our first pick and call it a day.

Maybe retire Ed and hold a pick for mid season draft too.


Glad to read your thoughts again Galty.

I love it, and its what I've thought all along.

All the crazy talk of dropping 8, 10, 15 players by posters and mad pro Mathieson, and, pro Lyon contingency of Carlton supporters who hadn't allowed more than half a season to play out, nor given some of our injured players a chance to show their stuff or proven to be over their ailments.

The only debate we should have is whether we go for another KPD in place of the out of contract players or not, and use the first pick on a great kid, or part of the trade.

If we can get something for Fisher and Dow and bundle up them up with other picks for points that would get us a decent pick, and upgrade some rookies, that would be it.


If we'd finished bottom four, as we looked like doing, 8, 10, 15 changes would make sense. It just so happens, we're not, and at the same time, there's been Kemp, Cuningham, Dow, Fogarty all come in and show something. TDK looked gone. JSOS has shown a bit.

Not interested in the usual fare that happens to all clubs between 2 and 10 that we're "this close" and adding 1 or 2 established players will be the difference maker, and it rarely ever is.

Other option would be trading out our first round pick this year for a future first next year too, build the cache for the two Camporeale F/S, and just use the Setterfield pick.
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Rod Waddell
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
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We should always look to replenish our list. Minimum 5-6 changes a year.

Do we really believe we’re close. 1-3 changes seems light to me.

We need a Barass type in defence and another 1-2 midfielders for starters. Look at our injury list of the previous few years. We cannot get a manageable healthy list for an extended period of time.
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Braithy
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:25 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Rod Waddell wrote:
We should always look to replenish our list. Minimum 5-6 changes a year.

Do we really believe we’re close. 1-3 changes seems light to me.

We need a Barass type in defence and another 1-2 midfielders for starters. Look at our injury list of the previous few years. We cannot get a manageable healthy list for an extended period of time.


i agree. but ...

the last four games will determine much. we go back to losing and stagnant play (possible - missing walsh and cerra's run and carry and dare) and we'll have to stock up on some midfield depth, replace/ upgrade gov, and get another small forward. they might even look to trade someone big (Harry) and get someone back along with picks

if we win out, or win enough and make finals and then give them a nudge, we might only make the bare minimum roster turnover and count on the contracts we've already paid and development within the list.
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DesEnglish
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Mid/forward or best KPP.

Who’s our Freo mid this year?
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Braithy
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:46 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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wonder if we could get ginnivan? way down the depth chart at pies, and probably that creative, enigmatic small that'd thrive in our forward line.
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Crusader
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Location: Bendigo
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
Other option would be trading out our first round pick this year for a future first next year too, build the cache for the two Camporeale F/S, and just use the Setterfield pick.

A couple of the rules around draft picks (subject to makey uppy, of course) include:

- Clubs must use two first round picks in any four year period.
- Clubs can’t trade out their first pick if they don’t have a pick in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.

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Rod Spooky Galt
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 7:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Yeah, fair point.

We'll end up with one in the second or third if McGovern, Dow or JSOS depart, but yes - need to use one this year (having traded out for Cerra and Saad in last four).

Trade it down I guess as much as possible. 15 down to 20 with a future pick coming back.
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bender
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
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Braithy wrote:
wonder if we could get ginnivan? way down the depth chart at pies, and probably that creative, enigmatic small that'd thrive in our forward line.


he would be a better option that gresham

i'm out of the loop, being in the uk, but why are we alledgedly so into gresham? i just dont see him being necessary when we can develop our own, and seem to be doing so

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FarmerBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Rod Waddell wrote:
We should always look to replenish our list. Minimum 5-6 changes a year.

Do we really believe we’re close. 1-3 changes seems light to me.

We need a Barass type in defence and another 1-2 midfielders for starters. Look at our injury list of the previous few years. We cannot get a manageable healthy list for an extended period of time.


Agree. List still needs refreshing and improving
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