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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 4:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
jake_h03 wrote:
jpulice1969 wrote:
i said it weeks a go trade Harry ( give us wat we want ) and play TDK full forward and Austin go find a ruckmen


Harry is an all Australian Coleman medal winning forward.

TDK has barely shown anything as a forward.

TDK is one of the most highly rated up and coming ruckmen in the game.

While we’re at it, why don’t we trade Weiters, play Cripps full back, and Austin go find an inside midfielder


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Exactly re TDK.

Does Cripps @ $900k = Kennedy and Hewitt @ $850k?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 4:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy wrote:
i think we play worse with harry and charlie attempting to do the same thing, and we're paying close to 2 mil of cap for the privilege

sell high, cash in, keep tdk, buy a quality small forward and maybe another key tall defender & look forward to 3 or 4 or even 5 quality draft picks to top the list up over the next 3 years.


if we could get that kinda deal back our way, i'll drive harry to the airport.


That’s your opinion Braithwaite. Can you back that up with facts?


We have won 5 games in a row with Harry missing against the highly rated Weagles.

Do you think Charlie would prefer to play without Harry?

Charlie isn’t hot every game. No player is.

Harry’s kicking for goal has been a huge disappointment this year. Cost us games all those misses. Charlie missed easy shots too. Cost us games. Harry was getting back to kicking well for goal. I think you are judging Harry on all those misses during our 6 losing game streak. I’m will turn.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 4:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1170
sinbagger wrote:
Braithy wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:

Finally, I’d try to keep TDK - Hoyne last night rated him the third best ruckman of the past 6 weeks behind Gawn and English. But not for $900k! Maybe I’d go up to $800 or even lower but for a longer contract. If he leaves, I’d go for Grundy or Sean Darcy.


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i think the whole point of selling mckay high (where the market will pay overs for him right now) was to keep tdk longterm plus more cap money for other assets. i think tdk is going to the best ruckman in the comp for a half decade and more.


i think people here are falling into a trap of trying to compare harry to jez cameron or lynch from the tigers. cameron has the tank, and ball use of a premium mid and often plays forward-wing and clears out the forwardline for hawkins and stengle. Harry is an excellent mark, but he doesn't do too much else very well imo

both harry and ben mckay imo are very soft, go to ground too easily, and are poor kicks; and for what harry is getting paid, we could do more service to the club by getting a cheaper second banana to play with Charlie.

we could have option A) or B) ...

A) Harry & charlie fighting over the same ball and watching harry kick 1.4 with 3 out of bounds every week.

B) Charlie plus cheap marking forward option, an a-grade small forward, tdk, and money towards a second key position intercept defender (ie upgrade Gov) + 2-3 first round draft picks for the future (ie guarantees us the campo brothers)


That’s funny, I see it the other way as in we should keep Harry because he often plays forward-wing, has a good tank, clears out the fwd line for Charlie and is good at kicking into the fwd 50.

This. And if Charlie's knee gives out and we've off loaded H? I can't believe anyone suggesting we get rid of Harry.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 4:53 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
Ridiculous thought to even contemplate trading someone that gives us such an advantage. Opposition clubs are spending hours every week trying to minimise McKay and Curnow and we haven't even hit our peak as a team yet. Get a grip all - we have a huge advantage with these 2, so unless we are completely clueless, why would we throw that away?

Just want to add - I hope Charlie keeps kicking on without McKay but with better opposition and double/triple teaming, I feel we will realise just how important Macca is over the next 3 to 4 weeks.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Charlie will get double teamed vs Pies.

Hopefully players up the ground kick the winning score.

Great to have targets who CAN mark as opposed to targets who can’t as well as Harry and Charlie

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy wrote:
lol the envy of other clubs? we haven't made the finals in a decade and this the year we were meant to, we lose 7 in a row trying to play bruise free, and when we finally have a dig we now have the 2nd worst injury list in the entire afl.

there is nothing at cfc where we are the envy. except maybe Charlie - who is and should be untouchable.

we only need 1 premium FF - charlie. then get a cheaper 2nd option and keep Jack as the third. we stay mobile, we don't get in each other's way and we're not soaking up 2mil of salary cap for two players who play the same role. teams won't get a chance to triple team charles if we run and move the ball like we have been, and like we're discovering, that gamestyle requires depth and depth costs money and our pockets are empty.

Harry can't drop punt, struggles in front of goal, and for what he is offering up the field (a release valve and marking target out of defence) for 1 mil a season - we could get for half that. Casboult did it for 350k, mihocek and cox do it for 400k etc

i'm a little astounded people make so much about the two coleman medals when we're not making and winning finals. personal accomplishments are a nice bonus to winning, sure. but taking that, over building a deeper list & winning? please.


Not having a go at you, but some of your points.

Yes Harry and Charlie are the envy of most teams. Not Cats, yet. It’s obvious why. Surely you’ve heard opposition fans talk about the two prong attack they provide.

Your sample size is based on this terrible bad kicking streak of losses which have cost us games, not the kicking form that helped is win games.

Astounded about Coleman medal admiration? It’s a way of proving they can kick goals without having to say they can kick goals. You can’t take that away as much as you want to prove otherwise. It’s indelible and will be proof they kicked a lot of goals which proves they can. That’s why. I’m astounded you disregard that FACT.

Not making Finals is separate to Harry’s value to the team. I can, and you have given plenty of reasons over the last 5 years why we have failed to make Finals. You can’t put the blame on Harry.

There’s plenty of other players who are taking up places of potentially better players. Let me remind you we have recently traded in some very good bargains Cerra 600k Saad 600k Hewett 400k and Acres 400k whilst Harry has been paid whatever he’s been paid. It’s not about one player.

I respect the model you and Hutch are spruiking but let’s get real, Harry isn’t holding us back and there are no guarantees we will get better value than Harry and most important our recent form proves we have a good list, the game plan works if all players buy in and play their role, and most important, we may have the list to make finals and shake them up if we can have our most important players on the field. Amazing how much better we are with the inclusion of 2 players written off by many supporters, Cuningham and Martin. A fit Harry can only make us even better,

I’m spewing Harry and Walsh aren’t playing vs Pies this week.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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rhino27 wrote:
According to Hun, no interest out west for Zac F but north and hawks showing interest. North potentially interested in Dow and Marchy too.
Do we package them all up to north for one decent pick or trade them individually?
Do we look to get another pick or 2 in this draft or start banking points for the Campo twins?


I hope Marchbank breaks back into the team to remind everyone how much talent he has. Will also increase his value if Andrew Russell thinks March is injury prone if not a bloke whose just had bad luck in the past.

Playing Dow I believe has increased his value.

Bottom line is we need picks to get good talent from the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7458
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
According to Hun, no interest out west for Zac F but north and hawks showing interest. North potentially interested in Dow and Marchy too.
Do we package them all up to north for one decent pick or trade them individually?
Do we look to get another pick or 2 in this draft or start banking points for the Campo twins?


I hope Marchbank breaks back into the team to remind everyone how much talent he has. Will also increase his value if Andrew Russell thinks March is injury prone if not a bloke whose just had bad luck in the past.

Playing Dow I believe has increased his value.

Bottom line is we need picks to get good talent from the draft.

To whom?

If we table an offer, even if it’s one year on the minimum, he’ll take it. If we don’t, he’ll be a DFA.

I don’t see any scenario where he chooses to go elsewhere for a better offer. I don’t see any trade happening.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:52 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:

Not having a go at you, but some of your points.

Yes Harry and Charlie are the envy of most teams. Not Cats, yet. It’s obvious why. Surely you’ve heard opposition fans talk about the two prong attack they provide.

Your sample size is based on this terrible bad kicking streak of losses which have cost us games, not the kicking form that helped is win games.

Astounded about Coleman medal admiration? It’s a way of proving they can kick goals without having to say they can kick goals. You can’t take that away as much as you want to prove otherwise. It’s indelible and will be proof they kicked a lot of goals which proves they can. That’s why. I’m astounded you disregard that FACT.

Not making Finals is separate to Harry’s value to the team. I can, and you have given plenty of reasons over the last 5 years why we have failed to make Finals. You can’t put the blame on Harry.

There’s plenty of other players who are taking up places of potentially better players. Let me remind you we have recently traded in some very good bargains Cerra 600k Saad 600k Hewett 400k and Acres 400k whilst Harry has been paid whatever he’s been paid. It’s not about one player.

I respect the model you and Hutch are spruiking but let’s get real, Harry isn’t holding us back and there are no guarantees we will get better value than Harry and most important our recent form proves we have a good list, the game plan works if all players buy in and play their role, and most important, we may have the list to make finals and shake them up if we can have our most important players on the field. Amazing how much better we are with the inclusion of 2 players written off by many supporters, Cuningham and Martin. A fit Harry can only make us even better,

I’m spewing Harry and Walsh aren’t playing vs Pies this week.



let's be clear. harry isn't holding us back. I'm not saying he is, i'm not calling him a liability or useless... harry is flawed and our list is also flawed.

let's also be clear; footy is a biz, and that biz requires us to work under a salary cap. of which we're hard against and cannot afford a longterm deal for tdk - who imo is more important than harry and what he brings.

i am only advocating selling harry to make us better. a swag of draft picks (imo much needed), the salary dump which affords us tdk, a premium small forward, a second, cheaper banana to run interference for charlie and then still have some money towards Gov's replacement/ upgrade.


i'm not overly emotional about our list. i love charlie, cerra, cripps, hollands, saad and probably most of all walsh and what they bring. but, i would cut anyone free if it meant making us a better team and winning finals.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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How much would you want to pay to TDK Braithy?
How do you know Austin can’t afford to get close to other offers for TDK?
Is you listen to Kane Cornes it’s $1M.
If you listen to rumours Sydney offer 800.
How much?
Are you sure we are losing TDK?

Are you thinking Gresham for small forward? Who?
How many small forwards do we need in a game?
Do Motlop Durdin have upside?

I could go on.
There’s so many scenarios.
There’s no offers tabled outside of media speculation.
There’s so much we don’t know.
You’re basing your argument on your assumptions.

You don’t rate the list.
The holes that existed 6 weeks ago seemed to evaporate because of the game plan and availability of players.
Season hasn’t finished. There’s a lot of IFs

Who is this 2nd banana you’re talking about?
Give us an example of the type?

Nothing is black and white.
Whether you like it or not, just because you say you don’t you don’t think Harry is holding us back, doesn’t mean your argument doesn’t suggest that. Of course it does. I don’t think he is stopping us doing anything.

At the end of the year, Gov is out of contract, so is Marcy and Dow and plenty of others who have been expensive, unproductive, injury prone….

Harry isn’t going to Hutchys ream. He isn’t going anywhere. Don’t worry about it.

The truth is, we don’t know how good this list is because we’ve only just seen Vossys game plan accepted and understood by the bulk of the list. Even our reserves team is showing some fight and desire to win.

I hope we continue our current trajectory and our weapons are back for Finals committed to the game plan. I reckon we will make Finals and give them a shake this year: I don’t think you do. Let’s see. Neither of us really know, and I’m not giving Hutchy headline (owner of SEN) any cred. He has agendas that don’t suit us.
, so does his shock jock Kane. Don’t believe the hype. They are fkwits.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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Harry ain’t going anywhere.
With Ed retiring, McGovern contract over, mature players like Plowman, Dow, Fisher all leaving we will have some space in Salary Cap
TDK will be the key. Talk is we have offered 2 years at around 700k p.a. Other clubs will offer more. Either way we will have some money
Cincotta Cowan Hollands Boyd O’Keefe Lemmey Mirkov all on base money


We will get Gresham
We are after Flanders who would be good
Need a ruck if TDK goes and we also need another 1-2 KPPs
3-4 good draft picks would be great adding some more class mids


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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FarmerBlue wrote:
Harry ain’t going anywhere.
With Ed retiring, McGovern contract over, mature players like Plowman, Dow, Fisher all leaving we will have some space in Salary Cap
TDK will be the key. Talk is we have offered 2 years at around 700k p.a. Other clubs will offer more. Either way we will have some money
Cincotta Cowan Hollands Boyd O’Keefe Lemmey Mirkov all on base money


We will get Gresham
We are after Flanders who would be good
Need a ruck if TDK goes and we also need another 1-2 KPPs
3-4 good draft picks would be great adding some more class mids


And Ollies brother Elijah ?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:
Harry ain’t going anywhere.
With Ed retiring, McGovern contract over, mature players like Plowman, Dow, Fisher all leaving we will have some space in Salary Cap
TDK will be the key. Talk is we have offered 2 years at around 700k p.a. Other clubs will offer more. Either way we will have some money
Cincotta Cowan Hollands Boyd O’Keefe Lemmey Mirkov all on base money


We will get Gresham
We are after Flanders who would be good
Need a ruck if TDK goes and we also need another 1-2 KPPs
3-4 good draft picks would be great adding some more class mids


There you go. Well drafted Farmer (pardon the pun)

There will be money.

If Austin feels TDK is not worth 800k, why pay it?
Pies worked that out the hard way overpaying rucks
We are in a good spot IMO, and have flexibility.
By the way, does TDK look like someone who wants to leave?
I don’t think so. He barracked for the Blues.

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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:47 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Priority has to be to sign TDK.

Flanders sounds exciting.

Can’t understand Gresham. Average player at an average club. We’re well beyond having to go for players like this.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:20 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No to Gresham. Just so overrated.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:46 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Imagine not offering Jack a contract but then signing Gresham :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bluebo baggers wrote:
Imagine not offering Jack a contract but then signing Gresham :grin:


Not in my wildest imagination could i imagine that ................ not possible is it ?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:59 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Mickstar wrote:
bluebo baggers wrote:
Imagine not offering Jack a contract but then signing Gresham :grin:


Not in my wildest imagination could i imagine that ................ not possible is it ?


I seriously hope not - place would be burned to the ground!

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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:07 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I wonder if TDK is holding a few up.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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bondiblue wrote:
I don’t think so. He barracked for the Blues.



He sounded very hesitant when he answered that question after the game on Saturday :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:15 am 
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Harry Vallence

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jake_h03 wrote:
Priority has to be to sign TDK.

Flanders sounds exciting.

Can’t understand Gresham. Average player at an average club. We’re well beyond having to go for players like this.


We will get Gresham as a FA for aroun $4-500k a year over 3-4 years. That's okay. Has ability and fills a role that will help us

Cook will make sure our Salary Cap is under control and we aren't over spending. Gresham will come for finals opportunity over money

Won't cost us anyone else.

Re: Jack. He isn't going anywhere. Always does his contract late. No issue


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