Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Wed May 07, 2025 12:25 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 2764 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 ... 139  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:57 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14269
Location: Sydney
bondiblue wrote:


dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...


Thought that was me. If not then you know what they say about great minds :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:02 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6321
dannyboy wrote:
keogh wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Ahh so then your arguments are full of fallacies and you do not care - see simple really, your not trying to discus, you are simply trying to be right.


Ahhhhh
That’s what you think
Two decades of shit proves otherwise




I knew we'd get here, so thank you.

Your referring to invalid logic - its a simple and very destructive flaw in our bias. Basically think of any conspiracy nut and you find someone who is building their beliefs based around (amongst other things) invalid logic. They hit upon a correct answer (with flawed logic) and then have their flawed logic reinforced because of the correct answer - its never JUST about the correct answer, it is also about the logic that gets to that answer - hence why in Maths you are asked to show your working out 'cos poor logic builds bias thinking that can carry you further and further away from fact until La La Land is reached.

Here is an example that our club has (I fear is but fingers crossed) been guilty of

We hired Barass won flags became convinced we just need to pinch the best coach and flags are assured. So we hire Parkin, it worked and our bias is now rock solid (even if the logic behind it was incorrect) Then Pagan (oops) Malthouse (oops) Voss....

No one is doubting the club has [REDACTED] up big time, no one is happy with the past 25 years, but to be better we do not just need to change, we need to get the logic behind our solutions right. That's the bit I think as a club we keep @#$%&! up.

You know what
I reckon your logic is illogical
You think I’m biased
Not at all
You can think that
I really don’t give a shit
When you pay Zac Williams 850000 a season over 6 years that’s illogical
You are an English teacher
I was a maths teacher
We agree to disagree
Go and write a novel about it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:28 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
bondiblue wrote:

dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...remember Binns has not turned 18yo yet.

I reckon Acres is doing his job well, and stuffs up a few but his Def remains good because of the sheer volume. But, he is providing heaps for the team. He's not kicking for Harry Jack and Charlie, or Owies and Motlop...referring to the games we lost with that being a feature moreson than Acres few fluffs...which I'd prefer to live with..

Are you still strong about having LOB in the team ahead of Acres? Really? Each to their own.

Bondi, I come on here to have happy, sometimes robust, intellectual conversations with everyone.
I like to see the best in all people and I love the football club as we all do.
What I really dislike about Carlton and its supporters at times is the need to not only attack our players but attack other supporters.
I know you are a passionate person as are most of us, but that doesn't give you the right to act the way you do sometimes.

You have a young bloke playing footy, so how would you like it if people were vilifying him for every disposal and talking about him as some leper at his club, while his childhood dream of being an AFL player is fading away through a combination of internal and external factors.
Just so someone can make some perverse point to either our previous recruiting managers failures or some other person on the internet in the intention to make themselves feel a bit better or having a win or one up.
I know I would hate it if it was directed at me and I'd hate it even more if it was at a child of mine.

I stick up for LOB because in a world of sheep where everyone just wants to see the worst in everyone and pile on, I think he still has some great attributes we are missing.
Does this make him the perfect footballer or even AFL level given his other deficiencies, no and maybe not.
But it doesn't mean I'll get on here and rubbish him or other players every chance I get and go to the lengths of making stuff up just to prove that point either.
I also don't blind myself on his strengths or weaknesses and I afford this same perspective to all of our players and judge them accordingly and fairly to performance.
And I don't revel in the failure of anyone, especially players playing for the club I love or who have left it.
I like you have moments of frustration but I sure as hell don't go out of my way to not only target our players, I especially don't go out of my way to target other supporters for supporting them either.
I don't hold grudges as I am an adult and I afford everyone the same opportunity to get things off their chest and move forwards.
I hope you do also.

And if we expect our club, coaches and players to have better standards.
Maybe us supporters should too.
It's only a game for us, but it's a life and career for the players.


Last edited by Sidefx on Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:36 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 6741
Location: Echuca
london blue wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Re Acres, not being wise after the event, but he was a recruiting ''throw at the stumps''.
I mean how many players on their 3rd crack at are a resounding success ?
I can't think of too many. If any.

Greg Williams might be one :thumbsup:

Yep, good get, no might about it. Seeing he actually played 2nds for us initially, maybe his return to the Blues was his 4th go at it. :lol:

_________________
The problem with Socialism is, you eventually run out of other people's money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:42 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7163
murraycray wrote:
london blue wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Re Acres, not being wise after the event, but he was a recruiting ''throw at the stumps''.
I mean how many players on their 3rd crack at are a resounding success ?
I can't think of too many. If any.

Greg Williams might be one :thumbsup:

Yep, good get, no might about it. Seeing he actually played 2nds for us initially, maybe his return to the Blues was his 4th go at it. :lol:


Difference is we were the only Club to give him the lemonade and sarse . His decision to depart Cats and Swans .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:55 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:


dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...


Thought that was me. If not then you know what they say about great minds :)


You both did, in your own way. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:10 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7163
bondiblue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:


dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...


Thought that was me. If not then you know what they say about great minds :)


You both did, in your own way. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Great minds think alike ? Fools never differ ? settle boys , just joshin '.

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:10 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...remember Binns has not turned 18yo yet.

I reckon Acres is doing his job well, and stuffs up a few but his Def remains good because of the sheer volume. But, he is providing heaps for the team. He's not kicking for Harry Jack and Charlie, or Owies and Motlop...referring to the games we lost with that being a feature moreson than Acres few fluffs...which I'd prefer to live with..

Are you still strong about having LOB in the team ahead of Acres? Really? Each to their own.

Bondi, I come on here to have happy, sometimes robust, intellectual conversations with everyone.
I like to see the best in all people and I love the football club as we all do.
What I really dislike about Carlton and its supporters at times is the need to not only attack our players but attack other supporters.
I know you are a passionate person as are most of us, but that doesn't give you the right to act the way you do sometimes.

You have a young bloke playing footy, so how would you like it if people were vilifying him for every disposal and talking about him as some leper at his club, while his childhood dream of being an AFL player is fading away through a combination of internal and external factors.
Just so someone can make some perverse point to either our previous recruiting managers failures or some other person on the internet in the intention to make themselves feel a bit better or having a win or one up.
I know I would hate it if it was directed at me and I'd hate it even more if it was at a child of mine.

I stick up for LOB because in a world of sheep where everyone just wants to see the worst in everyone and pile on, I think he still has some great attributes we are missing.
Does this make him the perfect footballer or even AFL level given his other deficiencies, no and maybe not.
But it doesn't mean I'll get on here and rubbish him or other players every chance I get and go to the lengths of making stuff up just to prove that point either.
I also don't blind myself on his strengths or weaknesses and I afford this same perspective to all of our players and judge them accordingly and fairly to performance.
And I don't revel in the failure of anyone, especially players playing for the club I love or who have left it.
I like you have moments of frustration but I sure as hell don't go out of my way to not only target our players, I especially don't go out of my way to target other supporters for supporting them either.
I don't hold grudges as I am an adult and I afford everyone the same opportunity to get things off their chest and move forwards.
I hope you do also.

And if we expect our club, coaches and players to have better standards.
Maybe us supporters should too.
It's only a game for us, but it's a life and career for the players.


You're an angel, and I'm the devil.

I haven't slandered LOB.
I appreciate his weapon, especially last year.
He's not a kid.
He's been in the system 6 seasons, and 3 contracts.
His other weapon is his foot passing.
Today, he couldnt hit a barn door from 20.
What? Are we going to ignore that.
And are we going to ignore the fact tht there kist is at a knives edge for a lot of players and some are better than LOB.
But that's a fact of life. Some are better than others and life isn't fair.

We have to get real about every player on our list who has been here for 5 seasons or more, or over 24yo.
LOB, Williams, Dow, McGovern, Fisher, Martin, Fogarty, Cuningham, Cerra...see where I'm going with this.

It is not evil to be evaluating players. I'm not the only person who has called for LOB to be delisted for the lat 2-3 years. I've just put a line through him again and he's a big boy. He has survied a cut previously.

Stop deflecting. I love you too, but you know, day in day out you have it in for Williams Martin McGoverne for the value someone else put on their heads. That's fair?

Forget the past. Focus on the present.
The list is the list and like Martin and Williams, LOB will survive because he's under contract: him for 2024.
LOB for Camporeale end of 2024. Simple. That's how I see it, and I share that with you.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:30 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35660
Location: Half back flank
mens sana en camporeale sano

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:56 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17943
keogh wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
keogh wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Ahh so then your arguments are full of fallacies and you do not care - see simple really, your not trying to discus, you are simply trying to be right.


Ahhhhh
That’s what you think
Two decades of shit proves otherwise




I knew we'd get here, so thank you.

Your referring to invalid logic - its a simple and very destructive flaw in our bias. Basically think of any conspiracy nut and you find someone who is building their beliefs based around (amongst other things) invalid logic. They hit upon a correct answer (with flawed logic) and then have their flawed logic reinforced because of the correct answer - its never JUST about the correct answer, it is also about the logic that gets to that answer - hence why in Maths you are asked to show your working out 'cos poor logic builds bias thinking that can carry you further and further away from fact until La La Land is reached.

Here is an example that our club has (I fear is but fingers crossed) been guilty of

We hired Barass won flags became convinced we just need to pinch the best coach and flags are assured. So we hire Parkin, it worked and our bias is now rock solid (even if the logic behind it was incorrect) Then Pagan (oops) Malthouse (oops) Voss....

No one is doubting the club has [REDACTED] up big time, no one is happy with the past 25 years, but to be better we do not just need to change, we need to get the logic behind our solutions right. That's the bit I think as a club we keep @#$%&! up.

You know what
I reckon your logic is illogical
You think I’m biased
Not at all
You can think that
I really don’t give a shit
When you pay Zac Williams 850000 a season over 6 years that’s illogical
You are an English teacher
I was a maths teacher
We agree to disagree
Go and write a novel about it


Why do you continually pull uninformed figures out of your ring to reinforce your views?
It removes any credibility from the post.
You don't know what he gets paid, or any other player. Repetition doesn't make certainty.
Let's try sticking to facts. By all means criticise his durability or early preparation but dragging dollars into it just muddies the water.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:44 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10374
Location: Coburg
Just two clarifications keogh, never been an english teacher, haven't taught for 8 or so years.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:38 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...remember Binns has not turned 18yo yet.

I reckon Acres is doing his job well, and stuffs up a few but his Def remains good because of the sheer volume. But, he is providing heaps for the team. He's not kicking for Harry Jack and Charlie, or Owies and Motlop...referring to the games we lost with that being a feature moreson than Acres few fluffs...which I'd prefer to live with..

Are you still strong about having LOB in the team ahead of Acres? Really? Each to their own.

Bondi, I come on here to have happy, sometimes robust, intellectual conversations with everyone.
I like to see the best in all people and I love the football club as we all do.
What I really dislike about Carlton and its supporters at times is the need to not only attack our players but attack other supporters.
I know you are a passionate person as are most of us, but that doesn't give you the right to act the way you do sometimes.

You have a young bloke playing footy, so how would you like it if people were vilifying him for every disposal and talking about him as some leper at his club, while his childhood dream of being an AFL player is fading away through a combination of internal and external factors.
Just so someone can make some perverse point to either our previous recruiting managers failures or some other person on the internet in the intention to make themselves feel a bit better or having a win or one up.
I know I would hate it if it was directed at me and I'd hate it even more if it was at a child of mine.

I stick up for LOB because in a world of sheep where everyone just wants to see the worst in everyone and pile on, I think he still has some great attributes we are missing.
Does this make him the perfect footballer or even AFL level given his other deficiencies, no and maybe not.
But it doesn't mean I'll get on here and rubbish him or other players every chance I get and go to the lengths of making stuff up just to prove that point either.
I also don't blind myself on his strengths or weaknesses and I afford this same perspective to all of our players and judge them accordingly and fairly to performance.
And I don't revel in the failure of anyone, especially players playing for the club I love or who have left it.
I like you have moments of frustration but I sure as hell don't go out of my way to not only target our players, I especially don't go out of my way to target other supporters for supporting them either.
I don't hold grudges as I am an adult and I afford everyone the same opportunity to get things off their chest and move forwards.
I hope you do also.

And if we expect our club, coaches and players to have better standards.
Maybe us supporters should too.
It's only a game for us, but it's a life and career for the players.


You're an angel, and I'm the devil.

I haven't slandered LOB.
I appreciate his weapon, especially last year.
He's not a kid.
He's been in the system 6 seasons, and 3 contracts.
His other weapon is his foot passing.
Today, he couldnt hit a barn door from 20.
What? Are we going to ignore that.
And are we going to ignore the fact tht there kist is at a knives edge for a lot of players and some are better than LOB.
But that's a fact of life. Some are better than others and life isn't fair.

We have to get real about every player on our list who has been here for 5 seasons or more, or over 24yo.
LOB, Williams, Dow, McGovern, Fisher, Martin, Fogarty, Cuningham, Cerra...see where I'm going with this.

It is not evil to be evaluating players. I'm not the only person who has called for LOB to be delisted for the lat 2-3 years. I've just put a line through him again and he's a big boy. He has survied a cut previously.

Stop deflecting. I love you too, but you know, day in day out you have it in for Williams Martin McGoverne for the value someone else put on their heads. That's fair?

Forget the past. Focus on the present.
The list is the list and like Martin and Williams, LOB will survive because he's under contract: him for 2024.
LOB for Camporeale end of 2024. Simple. That's how I see it, and I share that with you.

Angel and devil?
Nice Trumpism, but that's not my point.
Not sure if you are being facetious or a narcissist.
I believe I have explained myself clear enough though.

This isn't about fairness of ability, it's about the need for targeting players and people, which as much as you want to deflect it, you do.
You went to 2 different threads "looking for me" to target every disposal at the expense of one our players, instead of supporting our team who were literally s$%ting the bed as if that was the most important part of the game for yourself.
So please don't try and hide behind casually pointing out miss kicks etc, blind Freddy could see your objective.

As for LOB, he is only 23 and for what ever reason is slowly having his dream come to an end and we as supporters don't need to be hiding behind keyboards driving in the final knife for our perverse personal pleasures, no matter how long he has been in the system.

With the highlighted part, I think you have me confused with another poster.
I wouldn't have a clue how much those 3 are on and to be honest, who cares.
The only issue I have with them is that they are constantly injured, thus taking up list spots for players that can actually get on the park.
FWIW I think McLovin has been up and down this year, but it has been great to have him play out a full year.
But if he decides to leave then why not use it to our advantage because as far as history goes, he has been regularly injured for long periods.

Happy to focus on the present going forward also.
Hopefully we notch up a win today.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:45 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 20167
Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
dannyboy wrote:
Just two clarifications keogh, never been an english teacher


Well that was pretty obvious

dannyboy wrote:
Your referring to invalid logic


:lol:

_________________
Congratulations CK95


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:09 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7163
bluehammer wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Just two clarifications keogh, never been an english teacher


Well that was pretty obvious

dannyboy wrote:
Your referring to invalid logic


:lol:


Dannyboy V Keogh . Thats a heavyweight bout and we all have ringside seats . Fight you B..steds .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:24 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10374
Location: Coburg
bluehammer wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Just two clarifications keogh, never been an english teacher


Well that was pretty obvious

dannyboy wrote:
Your referring to invalid logic


:lol:

:donk:

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:55 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 17413
Location: Left Cuckistan
Bo Callahan kicked the first three in this u18 vic country game.

_________________
The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:16 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7453
Location: Bendigo
There’s only one small forward for us in this draft.

Thomas Anastasopolous.

After 100 games, he’d get his name on locker - and the one next to it.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:24 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6321
dannyboy wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Just two clarifications keogh, never been an english teacher


Well that was pretty obvious

dannyboy wrote:
Your referring to invalid logic


:lol:

:donk:

Obviously not maths
Drama maybe
Perhaps not to dissimilar
My fathers name was Alan Rowe
He was an actor. Played Bruce Spence’s father in Dimboola
Daughter is a producer in the entertainment industry

And I’m a gun guitar slinger
And logical


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:48 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14269
Location: Sydney
Crusader wrote:
There’s only one small forward for us in this draft.

Thomas Anastasopolous.

After 100 games, he’d get his name on locker - and the one next to it.


I'd recruit him if only to leave BT so tongue tied he can't do Roaming.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:07 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
:lol:
GreatEx wrote:
Crusader wrote:
There’s only one small forward for us in this draft.

Thomas Anastasopolous.

After 100 games, he’d get his name on locker - and the one next to it.


I'd recruit him if only to leave BT so tongue tied he can't do Roaming.

:lol:
He’d just call out ella.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 2764 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 ... 139  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 122 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group