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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:52 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Yep I'd love to see Ratts return, we pulled the trigger early because we are an impatient club - as Voss is discovering now. I try to stop myself with what ifs with Ratts but sometimes...

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Coburg
keogh wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Ahh so then your arguments are full of fallacies and you do not care - see simple really, your not trying to discus, you are simply trying to be right.


Ahhhhh
That’s what you think
Two decades of shit proves otherwise




I knew we'd get here, so thank you.

Your referring to invalid logic - its a simple and very destructive flaw in our bias. Basically think of any conspiracy nut and you find someone who is building their beliefs based around (amongst other things) invalid logic. They hit upon a correct answer (with flawed logic) and then have their flawed logic reinforced because of the correct answer - its never JUST about the correct answer, it is also about the logic that gets to that answer - hence why in Maths you are asked to show your working out 'cos poor logic builds bias thinking that can carry you further and further away from fact until La La Land is reached.

Here is an example that our club has (I fear is but fingers crossed) been guilty of

We hired Barass won flags became convinced we just need to pinch the best coach and flags are assured. So we hire Parkin, it worked and our bias is now rock solid (even if the logic behind it was incorrect) Then Pagan (oops) Malthouse (oops) Voss....

No one is doubting the club has [REDACTED] up big time, no one is happy with the past 25 years, but to be better we do not just need to change, we need to get the logic behind our solutions right. That's the bit I think as a club we keep @#$%&! up.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Listening to Fagan talk about Gunston & Rich as older players needing breaks and a refresh made me think about how we use Cripps.

Cripps at his best is a star but when he is injuured or sore he really struggles. Mostly because of lack of leg speed.

Going forward I believe we need to look at him as a 15-18 game a year player. Being more effective over playing week in week out needs to be the focus. For example I would have rested him this week with the bye coming. Nearly 3 weeks off with 8 rounds to go

Every side needs tough inside players and with Cripps Hewett & Kennedy (maybe Carroll) we have them but they can't play all together but when we do play two of them they need to be fit, fresh and more effective

Two of them playing well supported by Walsh Cerra Hollands Binns Docherty hopefully Cuningham or Williams make us much better

IMO this is where Voss needs to be smarter


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:47 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Fisher's handballs just dont make the mark.

No way would Fisher have got a spot in the team during the 80's when skills were valued more than they are these days.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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How was that kick Bondi?
And that one too?
Just stirring you... :grin:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Location: Echuca
Re Acres, not being wise after the event, but he was a recruiting ''throw at the stumps''.
I mean how many players on their 3rd crack at are a resounding success ?
I can't think of too many. If any.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:06 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
murraycray wrote:
Re Acres, not being wise after the event, but he was a recruiting ''throw at the stumps''.
I mean how many players on their 3rd crack at are a resounding success ?
I can't think of too many. If any.

Greg Williams might be one :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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He went alright.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Jack finally in defence and looked at home
Binns Cowan Motlop should be back in soon and will be very good players
I like Lemmey & O’Keefe but raw
Hope Carroll gets a run at it


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:02 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 932
Binns and Cowan need to play seniors in the back half of the year. Both have AFL talent and putting together good VFL form. Binns holds his width very well, knows how to find the ball and generally a clean user of the ball. Cowan is tough, has a bit of speed and a booming kick. Get some senior footy into these two in preparation for 2024.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:

I think we need to start again



What do you mean by that?

You mean, we keep adding and improving with what we've got, and get rid of those that don't give us what we need?

Not another rebuild. That will never happen again.
We've just integrated, and assimilated into the modern world of list management.

Onwards and upwards from here.

We can get rid of all the first round drafts that dont meet our needs...the ones SOS got us, and all of the sudden we have 6-7 spots.

A first round pick, and with the 5th, 6th, 7th selection we combe through the WAFL, SAFL, VFL, like a mid season draft. Fill the needs with ready made footballers. It can happen in one-two draft seasons and, its 2024, or 2025 and we are back baby.

We dont need another rebuild. West Coast do because of all the 30 yo's. Cats will for the same reason.

Tassie is 4-5 years away. Don't panic.
I'm sure every list manager in the country speaks with each other and that subject, Tassie Recruitment concessions, and associated consequences is at the fore front of their planning.

When Swans went to Sydney in 82, it didnt affect Carlton at all. No one wanted to go there. . Weagles came in 87, and they didnt affect Carlton List. Brizzy Bears came in 88, we lost a couple B grade players. Crows, we lost 2 players. Freo nothing. Port nothing. GWS lost Setanta. GCS lost no one. Mountain Molehill. Don't panic mate. We've moved on from SOS and Elliot and Smorgonland.

Its 2023, and we have the foundation of a great team. Vossy knows it and he wants to keep the job. He and Cook will make the right choices at the end of the year, and we move one step closer to our destiny, not just a pipe dream. I want the cake and the cream, week in week out, win or lose, because I know its not that far away....the Holy Grail. Don't give up!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:34 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
How was that kick Bondi?
And that one too?
Just stirring you... :grin:



BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.


3 kicks in the first half. He fluffed them. I posted straight after he did just as a reminder. I was looking for you.

Acres? He doesn't give me a hard on, but I love the way he puts his body in and hurts the opposition.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:38 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.



Acres? He doesn't give me a hard on, but I love the way he puts his body in and hurts the opposition.

How's that going for us?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:41 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.


3 kicks in the first half. He fluffed them. I posted straight after he did just as a reminder. I was looking for you.

Acres? He doesn't give me a hard on, but I love the way he puts his body in and hurts the opposition.

Classy, great bloke. :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
Listening to Fagan talk about Gunston & Rich as older players needing breaks and a refresh made me think about how we use Cripps.

Cripps at his best is a star but when he is injuured or sore he really struggles. Mostly because of lack of leg speed.

Going forward I believe we need to look at him as a 15-18 game a year player. Being more effective over playing week in week out needs to be the focus. For example I would have rested him this week with the bye coming. Nearly 3 weeks off with 8 rounds to go

Every side needs tough inside players and with Cripps Hewett & Kennedy (maybe Carroll) we have them but they can't play all together but when we do play two of them they need to be fit, fresh and more effective

Two of them playing well supported by Walsh Cerra Hollands Binns Docherty hopefully Cuningham or Williams make us much better

IMO this is where Voss needs to be smarter


Now that's what I call valid logic. We need to be smarter managing our herd of bulls.

I wish we'd rest him when he is carrying injuries, and I know we dont.

Great idea to make us better farmer. Really like.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.


3 kicks in the first half. He fluffed them. I posted straight after he did just as a reminder. I was looking for you.

Acres? He doesn't give me a hard on, but I love the way he puts his body in and hurts the opposition.

Classy, great bloke. :thumbsup:



...to discuss with the best of them. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I wonder if Sidex is watching the VFL.

LOB is NOT an elite kick.
Fk his short passing is hit or miss.

A bit harsh.
1 kick Bondi......How's ya mate Acres. :grin:
You really hate the bloke don't you.
You need to get over it, not good for your health.



Acres? He doesn't give me a hard on, but I love the way he puts his body in and hurts the opposition.

How's that going for us?



dannyboy made a good reference in his post about Acres providing the protection whilst the kids develop their bodies...remember Binns has not turned 18yo yet.

I reckon Acres is doing his job well, and stuffs up a few but his Def remains good because of the sheer volume. But, he is providing heaps for the team. He's not kicking for Harry Jack and Charlie, or Owies and Motlop...referring to the games we lost with that being a feature moreson than Acres few fluffs...which I'd prefer to live with..

Are you still strong about having LOB in the team ahead of Acres? Really? Each to their own.

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